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Kordell Stewart talks about his time in Pittsburgh

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by SteelerGlenn, Sep 23, 2020.

  1. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, I still remember Kordell's field goal getting blocked and returned for a touchdown, and Kordell missing 11 tackles on punt return duty. Seems like only yesterday... (harp music)

    In that game we had a negative 17 point swing on special teams. We lost the game by only 7. An AFC Championship game against the eventual Super Bowl winner, and his offense put up more points than the opponent's offense. Most times that's considered a success. People love to look at the stats and see he had 4 turnovers, and say that's why we lost. Then they make up stories about the reason we didn't win a Super Bowl was the fear in the QB's eyes that cold winter night. (It was a day game.) The first turnover was a hail mary at the end of the first half. The second was a freak fumble where his own OL accidentally swiped the ball right out of his hands. The last two were INTs in desperation time, but we never should have been behind in the first place.

    I'm not saying he had a perfect game or was the perfect player. He did have those 2 INTs late, when we were behind and trying to mount a comeback. I would, however, argue that there's a difference between throwing INTs when you're forcing passes against the clock to try to dig yourself out of the hole your special teams dug, compared to being behind in the first place because you threw so many INTs. A spread offense and passing all over was never the Steelers' strength, and in those days, it was practically nobody's strength. Their style was staying out of holes in the first place with good defense, a running game, and trying to limit turnovers. It says a lot about Kordell's detractors and is quite fitting that a game he outscored his opponents is the game is the most often cited reason for his "failure."

    In that particular game he was let down by his special teams, but on a larger scale, he was let down by the entire coaching staff. He had a different OC just about every year of his career. And they weren't making slight changes, they were completely re-writing the offense, with alternating OCs trying to eliminate running from his repertoire. If you want to see what that does to a young QB, look at Alex Smith's career in SF compared to once he got some consistency and had OCs that worked with him instead of against him. The fact Kordell had any success at all in his constant uphill battle is impressive. In 2001 he was AFC Offensive Player of the Year. Imagine how those years could have been different if the coaching staff had actually supported him.

    Since football evaluation and memory isn't your thing, maybe your problems with "Kordella" lie somewhere else entirely, like is the case with so many other Pittsburghers.
     
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  2. steel machine

    steel machine Well-Known Member

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    Always blame the QB. They are the leaders and if I'm being honest I never liked the whole slash thing. I never got behind him but it had nothing to do with color of skin.
     
  3. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    He still had a canon for an arm though.

    they didn’t do him any favors with not having a dedicated QB coach if they wanted him to become a pocket passer
     
  4. Dreamman0

    Dreamman0 Well-Known Member

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    Was always and still am a fan of his work and success as a Steeler. Like many above said, had he had an OC who took advantage of his skills or an OC who was around long enough for him to learn and grow into a system he would be viewed so differently. A unique talent so misused...
     
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  5. bleednblackngold

    bleednblackngold Well-Known Member

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    His head coach did little to help him either. I consider handling of the QB position Cowher's biggest weakness.
     
  6. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    I actually say something to that effect a few posts down the list.
     
  7. Dreamman0

    Dreamman0 Well-Known Member

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    If they were wearing black and gold and he got balls in their hands...no problem for me.
     
  8. Hawaii 5-0

    Hawaii 5-0 Well-Known Member

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    he would have liked that :smiley1:
     
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  9. Steelrules

    Steelrules Well-Known Member

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    Kevin Gilbride killed Kordell Stewart’s career
     
  10. 86WardsWay

    86WardsWay Well-Known Member

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    Korky should have remained Slash. he would have had a better overall career.
     
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  11. fearthesteel

    fearthesteel Well-Known Member

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    i really think kordell was way ahead of his time. nowadays you have all these running quarterbacks. lamar jackson reminds me of kordell but with just a tad better accuracy because l.j. is ver inaccurate soemtimes too. i think the only reason jackson has winning record i believe is the system and coaches really use towards his strenghts unlike back in kordells days you had to run the system in place

    but all in all. kordell was as electtifying as some of todays qb's wilson, jackson, dude from arizona. GO STEELERS!!!
     
  12. Jball

    Jball Well-Known Member

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    I think some of you are remembering things differently than I, and history does.

    By the end of his time in Pittsburgh I hated him more than I thought possible. I was convinced that he must've had pictures of the Rooney's running an underground Nazi rally. There was no other explanation as to why he was still here. You see how well he did after he left as well.

    Thank god for the Bus. Even with him, 1998, '99, '00, were almost unbearable. I couldn't watch Kordie throw one more worm burner of a 10 yard out pass. Every time he dropped back I expected something bad to happen. And frequently I wasn't disappointed.

    The day he left, I exhaled for the first time in like 5 years. As far as I'm concerned, he was a back-up QB at absolute best. He should've just stayed Slash. Taysom Hill has made a career of it.

    And yeah, we finished 13-3 in 2001. He started 16 games, averaging 194 yards a game, with 15 td's and 15 int's(including the playoffs). So he averaged 0.83 td's and int's per game. He boasted an 81 pt passer rating. Don't overwhelm me now. Even if you add his average 30 yards a game rushing. His playoff performance was abysmal, with his 56 pt average passer rating and his incredible total of 1 td's to 4 int's. My god, his lifetime td passes to int ratio is even. 1 for 1! Are you kidding me?! 1 for 1! Even Vick, who was a terrible passer in his first 7 years, finished +20 in those years.

    If we didn't have one of the best defensive seasons of ALL TIME, it would've been just another typical subpar season under Kordie.

    He lost his job to Kent Graham, btw. Do I need to keep going?

    Even in arguably his best season, '97, he ran for over 400 yds, but he still barely completed 50% of his passes and was only +4 in td/int ratio. He was a good runner, yes. Defenses weren't designed to stop those kinds of QB's like they are now. And he took advantage of that. But, even Steve Young beat Stewart's best rushing season. While also completing 66% of his passes, and a rating of 107.

    Lamar Jackson, in his first year as a starter, threw for more yards in a season than Kordell ever did(8 seasons), ran for MORE THAN TWICE the yards in Kordell's best season, had a 66% completion percentage(higher than Kordell ever had), beat Kordell's best passer rating ever by over 30 points, and was +30 in his td/int ratio(+26 better than Stewarts best).

    Deshaun Watson, in his first year as a starter, threw for a 1000 more yards in a season than Kordell ever did(8 seasons), ran for more yards than in Kordell's best season, had a 68% completion percentage(higher than Kordell ever had), beat Kordell's best passer rating ever by over 20 points, and was +17 in his td/int ratio(+13 better than Stewarts best). I'm not even gonna bring up McNabb, Newton, or Wilson. There's no comparison there either.

    Cunningham had a consistently better passer rating, and had 6 season where he ran for more yards than Stewart's best year.

    Colin Kaepernick, who had a similar career, was a better runner on average. Gaining 34.8 ypg(in his 5 years as the starter), and Kordell, in his best 5 starting seasons, averaged 24.6 ypg. Kaepernick, in his 5 starting seasons, had an average Qb rating of 89.1. And Kordell, in his BEST 5 starting seasons, averaged 76.46. Btw, nobody is confusing Kaepernick with a Hall of Famer.

    I'd put him on the same level as a Vince Young. And because they both were freak athletes that occasionally made some exciting plays, they were kept around way too long in hopes that they would turn out.

    If the Kordell days bring back the nostalgia of youth, then fine. But, I can't look back upon that mostly woeful time period and think good thoughts about the Kordell experiment. I almost had to stop watching. I couldn't take it anymore.
     
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  13. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I have always had a bit of animosity toward him because he was so talented but he refused to accept what he was good at and what he was not.
     
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  14. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    As a QB, he was a really good receiver!
     
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  15. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    If you went by that stat alone TB only has 2 more tds than ints for career. lol
     
  16. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    Should have concentrated as a wr, with occasional option throws like Randel El.
     
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  17. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    And as a receiver, he was about average as a QB.

    But as receivers go, ARE and #86 were way better QB's
     
  18. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that's how it was. Yes, Kordell always wanted to prove he was a good quarterback. Yes, he didn't want to be relegated to full-time WR. But he was never anti-running or anti-scramble. On the contrary, he was at odds with the coaching staff over that very thing. Kevin Gilbride once scolded Kordell for running for a 38 yard TD. Kordell - like all of us - was happiest in '97 and '01, when he had running-friendly OCs who supported his play style.

    This post is in bad faith. When you point to something good about Kordell's stats, you say, "Oh it was so much easier back then, defenses weren't ready for it." When you point to something bad about Kordell's stats, you compare him to the stats of modern QBs like Deshaun Watson, and completely ignore the changes in the game.

    So Kordell's 2001 QB rating of 81.7 underwhelms you. That's fine. But let's look at the stats. That was good enough for 12th in the NFL.

    Average top 12 QB rating in 2001 = 88.5.
    Average top 12 QB rating in 2019 = 105.7

    Average top 30 QB rating in 2001 = 79.5
    Average top 30 QB rating in 2019 = 94.3

    You might as well compare Kordell's NFL stats against Deshaun Watson's high school stats. Maybe it's more fair to compare him to his 2001 counterparts than the pass-happy fantasy fest that the league has morphed into the last 15+ years. As someone else pointed out, Terry Bradshaw's TD:INT ratio is essentially 1:1. The game has changed. Kordell's time was literally closer to Terry's than Watson's is to Kordell's.

    You're ignoring anything inconvenient to your argument, like what the rules were, what the norms were, the strengths of the Steelers and what Kordell was asked to do as QB, whether he was being aided or sabotaged by his OC (hint: it alternates)... The most compelling honest thing you said was that he wasn't as good as Randall Cunningham. Okay, and?? I might be Kordell's biggest supporter, and I never said he was better than Cunningham.

    You're pointing out he lost his job to Kent Graham as an argument that he wasn't good enough? That "QB controversy" was a total farce and a blemish on Cowher's coaching record. Graham started the season and offered nothing on offense, and we started 0-3. He gets hurt, Kordell wins the next 2 games. Graham is healed and somehow is given the start for the next game(??). He is then benched for Kordell and the team finishes strong. Final record is 9-7, with Graham at 1-3 and Kordell at 8-4. Graham's solitary win was a shutout. Is anyone seriously pointing at Kordell for the disappointing 2000 season? We won 4 out of the last 5 and, as someone else mentioned in this thread, would have been a serious contender in the playoffs, just like 2001. I'm sure you agree with me that you wish Kordell had played those first three games so we'd have had the chance.

    He's a lock for the 4th best Steelers QB of all time, and I actually have him at #3. He had higher highs than O'Donnell, and although he had lower lows (with one notable exception from Neil), I'd argue that at least Neil was in a Neil-friendly system for his career. Kordell played in the days when it was A) still debatable if a black man could/should be quarterback, and B) still debatable if it was even a good thing for a quarterback to run the ball. That sounds absolutely insane now, but it was a very real school of thought, and the Steelers hired a couple of OCs during Kordell's time who believed it. I'm also not sure who you all would rather have played, at the time. Jim Miller? Mike Tomczak? We didn't have an opportunity to draft a good QB prospect in the '98, '99, and '00 drafts, even if they wanted to (not counting hindsight gems like Hasselbeck and Brady). The closest thing would be Chad Pennington in 2000, and I'm sorry, I don't see 2001 turning out better with Pennington, plus we wouldn't have Burress. Let's not forget, if it wasn't for a 17 point special teams swing (plus who knows how much of a disadvantage from Pats cheating), we could very well be talking about a guy who delivered the first Super Bowl win since the 70s.

    You cherry-picked stats. I could do the inverse and post a highlight reel. People will remember it how they want. If this thread is any indication, I'm glad to see that, compared to the past, the consensus seems to be swinging more towards reality: Kordell was ahead of his time, and while that helped him against defenses, it hurt him against his own coaching staff. Be sure to factor that in when you're comparing him to Vince Young, who had the complete and total investment of his team behind him. Don't misinterpret my defense of him as a claim he should be in the HOF. He made plenty of bad plays that were just on him. But when I look at the big picture, I think a guy who did so many things never seen before, brought excitement to the team, moved the game forward, gave us the best chance to win, and is a top 4 all-time Steeler at his position is someone Pittsburgh should be proud of.
     
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  19. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    But the problem is that he wasn't a good QB.
     
  20. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

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    I think even his haters would admit he was a good QB half the time. He was a revelation in '97 and Team MVP, Pro Bowler, and AFC Offensive Player of the Year in '01. That's better than good. A better argument for you would be to say that when you look at the entirety of his career, he wasn't consistent. I don't think it flies to say he wasn't any good when for 2 years he was one of the top headaches for defenses in the league.

    If you want to ignore facts and say his inconsistency and bad times are his fault alone, go for it. My point is that his team pulled the rug out from under him half the time he was here. My belief is that if he'd had the team's full support, he'd have been much more consistent, and his inconsistencies would have been more like that of most other good players. Still there sometimes of course, but they'd be less noticeable.

    So maybe that's where the difference lies. I think circumstances play a pretty big role. It's not often a team undermines its own quarterback, but it happens, and I don't know how so many Steelers fans can turn a blind eye to it with respect to Kordell's career.
     
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  21. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    A QB who is good half the time is a bad QB. He won accolades because he was a new type of player, remember how the NFL tried to make Vick, RG III, Kaepernick, Josh Freeman, etc. into HOF'rs their first year? None of those players were even great QB's let alone HOF'rs.

    The headache he caused defenses was not because of QB skills but simply because he presented a new type of challenge. As a QB, he was bad. As a gimmick player, who could have been a decent WR, he created headaches for a minute.
     

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