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Dupree vs Hargrave

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by cajunyankee, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    You can't pay Hargrave big money if he's only going to play 35% of the snaps.
     
  2. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Tag Bud, extend Hargrave. Need to keep both.

    Tag buys you a year with Bud and get to see if he can follow up this season with an encore.

    You have no one to fill either spot, you don’t breakup a defense that played this well.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

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    Explain where you’re getting 35% from.

    Cajun
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

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    What kind of tag on Bud ?

    Cajun
     
  5. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    No way we cut alualu next year with the way Tuitt gets hurt. He has been one of the best bargains we have ever had. Tuitts stealing money so far. With his contract though we are stuck with a huge burden and have to keep a part time starter behind him which costs even more. He was hurt quite often at ND too. Get can makes the same money and plays near every down. Alualu has had to start for 3 different seasons now.:cool:
     
  6. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Games are still won in the trenches. It’s hard to count on Tuitt and if he goes down we’re gonna lose the LOS and TOP without guys who can step in and play at a high level. Hargrave gives you that and offers position flexibility as well.
     
  7. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    We would all love that but looking at the numbers I just don’t see how it can be done without making really damaging cuts elsewhere.

    It would also completely rule out any FA moves on offence. This offence was one of the very worst in the whole league in 2019 and there is a good argument that most of the resources need to go in there.
     
  8. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Buggs started getting in return near the end of the season. Mondeaux is a guy I'd like to see take the next step in the process.

    I hope the dan experiment ends. :cool:
     
  9. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Not impossible but not likely barring extreme circumstances. Some players will have to be released for certain. I will say this though in terms of your point.


    If Mark Barron gets released because of it, sign me up!
     
  10. turtle

    turtle

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    my philosophy is that Hargrave is more important to this D than Dupree. Moreso when you factor in his steady play. Penetrating nose/def tackles don't grow on trees and are much harder to find than OLBs. Plus we have two OLBs in waiting in Ola and Skipper. Who's backing up Gravedigger - McCullers and that's scary. He should have been gone two years ago.

    But the FO thinks the exact opposite so signing Bud will be the top priority as already voiced by Tomlin and in effect Rooney.

    None of this matters though because I think Hargrave gets a big offer from another team and the question will be moot. In that case I hope they keep Alualu even though they can save some $$ from cutting him in hopes of the Bugg crawling into the lineup.
     
  11. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    I wish Carolina would get their HC vacancy filled because that would go a long way towards telling what they will play and who is being kept or let go. I'm thinking that Poe and McCoy are on 1 year deals and might be a cheap option should a bidding war for Hargraves begins to happen. Poe is coming off an injury and has been doing short term deals the last few years so he may accept a backup role to play NT again.
     
  12. turtle

    turtle

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    I've been wanting a back up to Gravedigger for awhile (BJ Hill, Jaleel Johnson, Daylon Mack) but Poe coming in after the Gravedigger leaves makes perfect sense......from a literary standpoint anyway :lolol::lolol:
     
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  13. SGSteeler

    SGSteeler Well-Known Member

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    I would take Dupree and it isn't really that close. Not that Hargrave isn't a really good player (he is), but for other reasons.

    1. We have zero depth at OLB.
    2. Hargrave easier to replace due to position and snap count.
    3. Easier to replace Hargrave in the draft (even in later rounds). Edge rusher is just valued higher than interior DL
    4. I honestly think that having a 1-2 punch at OLB with Dupree and Watt is what elevated our defense. If we downgrade Dupree our defense will very likely take a noticeable hit in both turnovers and sacks... losing Hargrave should have less impact

    In a perfect world both remain Steelers, but if i had to take one of two im going 48. I really hope we can keep our defense as in tact as possible. With a healthy Ben playing solid football we have just as good a chance as anybody to come out of the AFC.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. The Glory Days

    The Glory Days Well-Known Member

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    Be careful. You're going to have pitchforks and torches outside your door. Don't you know that stats are definitive and the ultimate gauges for every single decision a coach makes? Not to mention, they are to be used to win every argument, regardless of intent, bias, or misinterpretation.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Daddymac10

    Daddymac10 Well-Known Member

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    Can Hargrave play OLB?? Otherwise we don't need him if Tuitt return to form. It's very possible we may lose both Hargrave & Dupree because cap money is tight even with the franchise tag. If we do tag Dupree, then Chickillo is gone, might lose a starting TE, & a couple more reserve players...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Hargrave snaps were around that number in 2018, his snaps went up in 2019 because of Tuitt's injury. Once Tuitt returns in 2020, Hargrave snaps will go down again.
     
  17. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Carolina hired Matt Rhule as their HC last week
     
  18. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hey thorn58.

    I am thinking that you and I are on the same wave length here as far as NT. I have been barking for a Casey Hampton type NT for years now. The counter-argument is that his prototype has become obsolete in this day and age. I continue to disagree. Those who say no to this mode of a player state that his snaps would be limited. I say so what?

    You mix and match with the Hampton and the Hargrave types. Poe fills the Hampton void on first and second downs. He commands two blockers like Hampton; which hopefully leads to chaos. This can either be a sack from someone else, a yardage loss on a hand-off or just busted play(s). Now, we have the opposition in 3rd in 10 or longer. That is when you bring in the faster more athletic Hargrave type to finish the job up. For those who continue to say nay to the Hampton type because it is antiquated, look around, other teams are still using players who fit that bill such as Poe who I wanted back when and would still pick him up for reasons just explained above.


    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
  19. Chainmover1

    Chainmover1 Well-Known Member

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    turtle said:

    "None of this matters though because I think Hargrave gets a big offer from another team and the question will be moot."

    Agree!

    Dupree is going to be expensive it seems so out of curiosity I decided to take a look at some of his stats. For no reason at all I took the opening and end games.

    DUPREE's stats games 1-3 and 15-17 below.

    These coincidentally, were most of the very few teams that
    had a winning schedule the Steelers played.

    --------TKL--AST COMB SK / YDS TFL QH
    NE-------4-- 0--- 4--- 1 ---7-- 2---0
    SEA------2-- 2----4--- 0----0---0---2
    SF-------3---0--- 3--- 0--- 0---1--
    BUF------1-- 2--- 3--- 0--- 0-- 0-- 0
    NYJ------2-- 4--- 6--- 1--- 1-- 2-- 1
    BAL------4-- 0----4--- 1--- 0-- 1-- 2

    Really not much there. But he did have a
    good year.--- Uh! I almost forgot "But he didn't have a losing season.":smiley1:

    Apparently his stats came from feasting on
    the weaker teams . Everyone said they played a very
    soft schedule. Next year could be tougher, They play NFC East
    AFC South, BUF and DEN. Ehh! Not too tough.

    Hmm! Maybe a lot these mock drafts taking an OLB at pick #49 know what they're talking about.:smiley1:
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. CK 13

    CK 13 Well-Known Member

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    What getting injured again? Don't get me wrong he is a beast but, he is always banged up and has missed major time. Good thing we have Alualu. More reason that Hargrave needs to be retained.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Among the many things being attributed to Duprees jump in production this year ,one of them has been his increased % of attempts rushing the QB. He was tasked with less responsibility in coverage and was allowed to get after the QB. He played about 950 snaps ,so he had a lot of opportunity. That being said maybe it’s a slight change in philosophy based on the fact that our secondary and the coverage of our ILBs has improved. That allows less responsibility for the OLBs. As far as the draft putting all those factors into play it may be possible to find a OLB at pick 49 who could play right away. There less of a concern with how a younger player learns the defense and how adept he is in coverage. That could come in time but if they can find a OLB at that pick who is already a good pass rusher we’d be on the right track...

    There’s also a FA as well that can be put in the mix. IMO it’s tag Dupree or let him go. It doesn’t make sense to commit that kind of money on a multi year deal. You can’t have all that money tied up in 2 players(Watt) and in that position.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks totally missed that with the news of Keuchly's retirement and the hiring of their OC. I had heard they were prepared to go into the senior bowl without making a choice of HC which seemed wierd. Just looking after your comment there are a bunch of articles talking about total rebuild and veterans who don't want to be part of it. So maybe some good talent added to ranks of FA.
     
  23. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    You simply can’t count on Tuitt. You have to be really comfortable with what’s behind him. Are we comfortable with not having Tuitt and Hargrave? I don’t think so. If we lose Hargrave we will have to dip into FA and most liked use a higher pick at DL as well. If you can’t stop the run,you won’t have to worry about the pass. How many sacks we gonna get then?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. Chainmover1

    Chainmover1 Well-Known Member

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    the steeldeal said:

    "There’s also a FA as well that can be put in the mix. IMO it’s tag Dupree or let him go. It doesn’t make sense to commit that kind of money on a multi year deal. You can’t have all that money tied up in 2 players(Watt) and in that position."

    If it was James Harrison, Lloyd, Kevin Greene, [ oh wait he's on the other side] ok even a Joey Porter then I would find the money.

    12-16M can buy a lot of goodies.:smiley1:
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  25. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Keep whacking away at that straw man and let us know when you would be interested in debating what people actually post rather than falsified versions of it that you post here.
     

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