Tainted Talent VS This

So obviously losing Ben for the season was something we could never overcome with the backup QBs we have. I was hoping Mason could potentially be the future but his first go round was less than promising. So bad in fact we now have an undrafted no name playing over him and probably rightfully so.

With that being said the post is about losing the two head cases in AB and LB. It has officially caught up with this offense to the point that we are arguably the worst in the NFL. The writing was on the wall in the last game of last season when AB went AWOL. It only carried over to this year where we see how this team has no playmakers.

So my question is what is better? Having talent even at a cost of team unity and me first or having this?

 

Those aren't the only two options.

 

Well sure you could get the best of both worlds I suppose and team first talented players but more likely than not in today’s social media and twitter days it’s one or the other....

 

I will take this team before ANY of the "Killer Bs" years. Nevermind the drama, which deserves its own thread of its own. There is a very finite reason why I would take this team.



"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins Championships".


- Bear Bryant




Even with all that offensive talent, what did that amount to?! Heart breaking games in which the narrative of Tomlin teams playing down to their competition took to new heights is a good starting point. Costly turnovers is another. Blowing leads was the biggest issue however. Our defense could not stop comparable offenses unless our own offense was scoring 25+ per game. Even then, victory was never a sure fire guarantee.



Fast forward to today and we have a Top 5 Defense and an offense that is not hindered by just the players but also the Offensive Coordinator. Yes, the players job is to execute their assignments to the letter. That said, Randy Fichtner has consistently placed this team into unwinnable situations; Sunday Night's Wildcat being the most ASININE playcall of the year and arguably in Steelers History since the start of the decade.



Until Randy Fichtner gets out of his own ways, expect this offense to stall when he is needed most to call the plays to put them into a position to win.

 

Exactly. Coaching is the biggest issue with this organization. Most recent example is letting Munchak walk away. Tomlin plays a #2 Ranked passing defense the same as he would a 32nd ranked passing defense. Throw in a horrible placed fake punt for good measure. Fitchner thinks that since a Wildcat fooled a lousy Bengals team it would be great to run it all game long against a much better, greatly more disciplined Bills Defense. Butler finally has play makers so he's making up for years of inadequacies but 4 years to develop #48's pass rush left the Killers B's in catch mode all the time. Obviously Porter's exit was an upgrade but even that was more about being a players friendly coach than actually a coach for the players.

Forget for a minute about the next QB we can throw under to bus and look at the bigger picture. These guys as a team are average and their record reflects just that. It's a miracle this team 8-6 with a chance to be 10-6 and still make the playoffs but I have zero faith that MT game plans any differently which will be an early exit cause he already has the questionable health of the team as a built in excuse. We're always next man up, the standard is the standard, we'll chew on it and own it. Not saying Tomlin is a bad coach but COTY honors seems a little outlandish.

 

We would be 8-6 with Ben and brown anyways minus this defense.


Probably lose Arizona and chargers and win Seattle and bills.

 

This.


That is pretty how the "Killer Bs" operated during that five year run. Play to the level of competition. For better or worse being the biggest issue.

 

Think back to the Steelers vs Jaguars in the playoffs if you aren't convinced defense wins championships. Not on any planet should an NFL team score 42 points and lose. Just a little bit of defense and we would have won that game.

 

Hey Jujubean.

At some point you have to "Draw a Line in the Sand" with all of the nonsense that some players display. Bell was still workable IMO but Brown just got worse and worse. He had to go, unfortunately. For me, when he sabotaged the potential "Bills trade" that was it. "Boo hoo hoo I am not going to show up to play for Buffalo if the Steelers trade me there". What an F....ing unprofessional ungrateful piece of crap. I loved Brown and Bell. Yes, I know we did not win a ring while they were here. However, when they were here, they were exciting and we always felt we had a chance with them in there along with Ben. Not so much now.

The problem with people like Brown, is that they see no wrong at all in anything they do. I know plenty of people like that. They never admit they are wrong about anything. There are plenty of historical examples of other selfish players throughout all of sports. Once again, it has to be judged on a case by case basis. If their behavior spreads throughout the locker room and onto the field then yes they probably have to go. If it can be managed, and self-contained, while at the same time produce winning then probably let them stay.

Hey, I have always stated that a major part that I am a Steelers' fan is that because, for the most part, they take a stand on players like Brown, (such as Santonio Holmes). I do not watch them to have bake sales and make home-made feel good cards. I want Victories. "Team Unity" can still be achieved while keeping such players but once again the proverbial "Line in the Sand" has to be drawn by management as to what they will tolerate and its overall effect on the team.

STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

It's a lot of reasons why we didnt win with the killer B"s. I think it start with Cincy injuring LB, AB and then the devastating injury to Shazier. We had some great runs those years. Timing and health is everything. Let's face it ... with Ben being lost for the season, the killer B's dismantled, Munchak gone, and we losing one of the best liners in the nfl, and continuing to be outcoached .... the results are in ... we have become the '80's team again

 

Hey Iowasteeljim.

Yes, that was, as I say, totally "Disgusting". Especially given that the Jaguars, I believe, only scored around 10 points or so the prior week to advance in the playoffs. How in the world, at home on top of that, does a team score 42 points and not win the game? I still shake my head over that one. I would not even know where to begin to point the finger of blame. I cannot put it all on the Tomlin as much as I would like to. Where was the player execution on that one? Just unbelievable.

STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

Hey defva.

You basically summed up all of the woes of this team. Nice job. I really think though that with a healthy Ben, we are actually in first place right now. Mason had three losses that were not his fault but rather blunders by other Veteran players: Moncrief, Connor and JuJu. Each one contributed a screw up in their respected games that cost us those games. Those were all very winnable contests. Like as always been stated: Usually, the outcomes of very close games are determined by one or a few plays. Well, the proof is in the pudding right there for those three.

Given all of that, the QB situation, which is biggest issue IMO, will continue to plague us for the rest for the season, unless in part, the coaches put these young guys in more advantageous positions to be successful. Of course they are going to make mistakes. So did Ben. However, the coaching staff really has not done them any favors either with some of their head-scratching decisions. The biggest one for me, is the compete under-utilization of the TEs. I have been head-scratching about this all season and their Houdini disappearing acts from the "O". The TEs can be the QB's best friend in so many instances. However, they are just not be used properly IMO. More specifically as check0downs and pass plays right down the middle of the field. Unbelievable. Take care and have a great day!

STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

Hey again Jujubean.

Over the summer, I tried to explain to folks that once Bell and Brown left that we were in a world of trouble. However, most folks that I talked to were delusional. They felt that Connor and JuJu were going to just seamlessly replace those two without any hindrances.... Wrong! And now we are seeing the problems that coincide with their departures.

Because JuJu had a great season last year, it was then, and even more obvious now, that he was the beneficiary of AB being doubled team quite a bit and leaving JuJu with favorable 1-1 match-ups. Which to his credit he did what he was suppose to do and took full advantage of them and had a great season. Good for JuJu. Now, he is having a hard time finding his way with AB's departure as well as fighting the injury-bug all season which was never an issue in the past for him.

For Connor, he has been fighting injuries all season as well as an O-Line that really is not built for his style of running vs. the style of Bell. Man, Bell + O-Line = Thing of Beauty. And not just that. Bell was an excellent receiver. So much that sometimes he lined-up as a receiver. He truly was a dual threat that teams had to game plan for. His 80+ catches per season are WR numbers by themselves for a whole season. Any WR who makes 80+ catches for a season would be ecstatic in most cases. Connor is good. Not great but good. I like the guy but he is no Bell. Not even close. He is nothing special like Bell for reasons that I just described above.

IMO, if Bell and Brown played out their careers in Pittsburgh, they most likely end up in the HOF and eventually get a ring or two. I am sick of people stating: "Well we never went to the Super Bowl with them". Okay that is factual. However, on the other hand we were definitively way better and much more competitive with them. If we had them now, with our new with improved Defense, we would probably be unstoppable.

STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

James Conner. ​

 

Last year we had the #1 ranked passing offense in the NFL and won 9 games with it. This year we have the worst passing offense in the league and have won 8 games with still 2 more to play. A win is a win it doesn't matter if the score is 39-38 or 10-9, what matters is putting that W in the win column.

 

And it was against Blake Bottles, and that offense...Not Patrick Mahommes, Or Brady...After that game is when Tomlin should have gotten on with his lifes work

 

Not excusing the D they were atrocious but Ben and the offense gifted them 14 pts . IIRC

 

Hey Disco1981.

Your Quote: "After that game is when Tomlin should have gotten on with his lifes work"

You got that right. Actually, it should have been a lot earlier than that. I stated somewhere else earlier in that the Jaguars had scored something like ten points the week before in a playoff game. Then they come into Pittsburgh and do that! Totally Disgusting. How in the world does a team score 42 points in a game and not win? It is completely mind-boggling. Maybe one of the Tomlin lovers here can answer that one.

I get the "Players play and coaches coach" yack. Yes, to a degree that is all true. However Don't the road and rubber meet at some point?, isn't it the coach that designs the game plan for the players to play? The Jaguars are marching up and down the field and scoring like a going out of business sale. Somebody needed to make some adjustments somewhere, somehow. Maybe one of the Popcorn Vendors (no knock on them) could have since he/she had a better vantage point probably. Somebody, anybody!


STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

Or maybe the players on defense should've stepped up, and made some plays against a average offense . And that team wasn't good enough to overcome the 14 points Ben gifted the Jaguars with his turnovers in the first half.

 

For the regular season, the Jaguars were #1 in the league for rushing yards.
5th in points scored. 6th in total yardage.
They were not an "average offense". (Not elite, but closer to the top than they were to average.)

People undersell them because Bortles wasn't an all-pro.
Bortles was too inconsistent to be relied on as a starter, but he was capable of some good games.
In both games against the Steelers that season, he was below or at his season average.
Bortles played better in the championship game. His stats matched Brady in that game. They would have beaten the Pats in NE, if they didn't give up 14 points in the last quarter.

 

If I have to choose only one of those options, let me ask...were you happier last year when we imploded and squandered an opportunity to make waves in the playoffs or now, where we are actually good enough to win nearly every game without turning the ball over? I'd defintely pick the latter. Other than the Bills game, I had no expectations for us to win. I was actually enjoying watching the young guys compete.

The Bills game, unfortunately, had me beginning to believe. If we were able to put together a mistake-free game, we could actually demonstrate that we belonged in the post season by beating the Bills. I got let down. Hard.

 

This. Especially when the opposing quarterback is Blake freaking Bortles.

 

This?
I'll take this.
Get Ben, JC, and JJSS back healthy and the offense will score more than 10-13 ppg. The way this defense is playing since Minka, all they need to do is put up 20 and they'll win most games. I don't think that's too much to expect if the O is healthy. It's not the high flying circus of the 3B's, but its a nice and effective compliment to what the defense has finally become.

The Steelers remind me of my golf game. Im either driving the ball like a champ and chipping like a fiend, but 4 putting every green. OR Im slicing everything into the woods, blading my way to the fringe on the approach but one putting. I can NEVER do it all at once and put together the perfect game.

 

OK, so with Ben and Ab and all the disruption we went 8-7-1..w/o AB and Ben injured we go at worst 8-8. We have for the first time in years a top 10 D with possible improvements. The O actually could improve enough to get us to the next level with a half decent back up. Is this the SB team we crave, no, but things could be a lot worse. Problem is do we have the cap room and smart enough execs to make those moves to get us to that level..that includes at the very least getting a new OC. I would not bet on it.

 

you can't accurately judge the loss of AB and Bell with Ben being out for the season. I will take the drama free version. Who knows what the offense produces with Ben this season.