Have We Seen the NFL Potential of Mason Rudolph?

Why don’t you read it for yourself and see. I have already summarised it.

Once again you avoid giving any detail when asked to back up what you are saying. Who do you think you are fooling?

 

That would be a no, it does not support your initial claim. You had it wrong and you are trying to bury your error by going after my response. Please acknowledge your error and then we can move on. Thank you.

 

Give it up, man.

Some will never admit to a mistake.

 

Article states that there is a cap saving of 8.5m in 2020 if he is traded or cut. He is then off the books entirely in 2021 so a further 31.5m as the prorated signing bonus is brought forward to 2020. The dead cap cannot be spread over two season as I have already stated

I acknowledge I was out by $2m. If you can prove my figures are wrong then well and good.

I think we both know he is not getting traded or cut, that does not change the specifics, which is what you challenged me on.

 

Everyone forgets that when Ben left the game against Seattle, the Steelers were winning. Rudolph played well the second half but Russell Wilson took over the game in the 4th quarter.

 

Hodges is 2-0 as a starter and he also should get the win against the Bengals because the Steelers were losing when he came in and rallied the team to a win. Also you can't give Ben a loss for the Seahawk game because the Steelers were winning 10-6 when he left. Technically you have to give Hodges the loss against the Ravens because he was the losing QB once the game went into OT. So going by the same rules you would use for a major league pitching starter this is how it should be.
Ben 0-1
Rudolph 4-3
Hodges 3-1

 

What are you disagreeing about? Everything I stated was a fact. Were the Steelers ahead of the Seahawks when Ben left the game? The answer is yes. Were the Steelers losing to the Bengals when Rudolph was pulled from the game? Again the answer is yes. Was Hodges the QB when the game went into OT against the Ravens? Once again the answer is yes.

 

You are not taking into account dead money for 2021, so it is more than $2 million off. Somebody else already posted that the dead money hit would be higher than you realize for 2020 and it would absolutely cripple the Steelers for that season at a time that they are looking at trying to keep Dupree, Hargrave and quite a few other key free agents.

I should have clarified that it will not give them cap relief for next season. I'm not saying my post was correct. I should have been clearer. The issue was you attacking that rather than realizing just how far off you were in the initial post.

 

That is not how the statistic is kept. The quarterback's record is based on who started, not who finished or what the score was if and when they left the game.

 

So if a QB throws 5 first half interceptions and his team is losing 24-0 at halftime when he is pulled from the game, and the new QB comes in and rallies his team to a 28-24 victory. You mean the starter that dug his team a 24-0 hole is considered the winning QB? If that is the case then that is ridiculous.

 

Nope, 2021 dead cap charge is in my figures, as already stated it cannot be carried over two years because of the CBA so it all has to be counted in 2020. The dead cap charge would be $25m in 2020 and $0 in 2021 if he were cut / traded or retired in 2020 before his roster bonus. This is in line with my initial claim so I don’t see how I am ‘so far off’ as you put it. My initial post clearly stated $42m over two seasons, not my fault if you misread that and thought I was talking about 2020 only.

The reason I was out $2m over the two years was because I thought his cap number in 2021 was 33.5m but it is only 31.5m as his base salary drops 2m in the final year.

The hit would only be higher than I stated and potentially cripple the Team if he is forced to retire through injury because he has $16m in 2020 and $14m in 2021 guaranteed for injury, but that is not what we were discussing at all. There is nothing to suggest he won’t be able to return because of the injury, and if that were to happen they can put him on IR again or if he is happy to just retire they can do a deal with him to renege on some or all of the guarantees.

And there clearly is cap relief in 2020, $8.5m as I have stated and even linked a reputable article to substantiate.

Once again, none of this is likely to happen in any case. The Steelers have an out in the contract in 2021 that I thin they may use, but he will be QB1 in 2020

I like to think I have a good grasp of the cap but I am no expert and I am of course open to correction if I have missed something. I appreciate your partial admission of error btw.

 

I agree, but that is how the statistic is kept. It is also one of the reasons why I mocked Heinz for thinking the statistic was a good way to measure performance by a quarterback.

 

All other things aside, they can save some of that money by cutting him after 2020. Counting that all together as a benefit of cutting him after this season doesn't make sense.

 

I think he plays next year barring injury but the way the contract is set up 2021 is a ‘wait and see’ for both Ben and the team. All of the other QB’s from his famed class are in various stages of decline and I doubt Ben will be immune. If he retires early it leaves a huge chasm at QB but the cap space would be very welcome to lock up some of these young guys. If Watt and Minkah continue on their trajectory you are looking at the highest paid OLB and FS in football very soon.

 

Not sure why we're discussing Ben, but there should be little consensus that he's been a God send to this organization. He will be in the Hall of Fame as one of the best QBs to ever lace them up.

I'm sure everyone here including you would be ecstatic to see Ben in the lineup over either Mason or Duck. Is he as good as he was in his prime? No. But even an aging Roethlisberger gives one superbowl hopes.

Irregardless if the Duck vs Mason debate, I don't think many feel our QB situation currently has what it takes to win the superbowl.

I get a kick out of how much disrespect Ben gets on these boards. Imagine how this game would going for this team with an offense to go along with this defense.

 

Josh Allen?!


He is from Wyoming; a Mountain West team.

 

Mason won't see a second contract from the Steelers, heard it here first.

 

Sometimes I wish you could rate a response like, agree, winner, and informative all at the same time. Once in a while a response is truly worthy!

 

Agree....winner...informative....there problem solved.

 

One thing for sure the Steelers are 7-5 and in 6th Playoff position while using 3 QB's this season, 1 being not even drafted. Not to shabby!

 

I have no disrespect for Ben... I'm calling what I see. We had an HOF QB, All Pro RB and WR.... and still couldn't get it done for several years. What makes you think Ben will all of a sudden become awesome again with Washington, Johnson and Holton as WRs? It's not all on Ben for why we didn't win it all during the 2014-2017 Super Bowl window... but he did choke vs. Jags in our last playoff game that pretty much cost us the game in the 1st quarter. Plus, his sub par play during the last half of 2018... was disappointing to say the least.

I hope he comes back with vengeance in 2020 and proves me wrong... but I keep seeing his abilities decline, just like other successful QBs his age. Some of you are in denial about this... and that's fine. I will post the truth and reality.

 

No, you post pessimistic opinion. I'm not saying Roethlisberger isn't in decline, but even with that he was among the top 10 quarterbacks in the NFL in 2018 and can still be among the top half in the league if the elbow heals well enough.

The defense is going to have to carry the Steelers, but that doesn't mean Roethlisberger can't play a role similar to Elway during the Broncos' Super Bowl victories. Of course, that team had a dominant running game and this one is a long way from that.

That brings us back to what I questioned you about on this thread, which was the use of the team's records when each quarterback starts to evaluate the quarterback, which is just a terrible idea.

 

You and I must be watching different games. I evaluated the 6 quarters Ben played vs. Patriots and Seahawks. He sucked. Period. 0-2 is his record for 2019. Fact.

 

Hypothetical question: Steelers make playoffs and Ben is heeled and could play. Does Tomlin start him in first playoff game or go with who got us there??