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When Atlanta finally has enough....

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Jammasterc, Sep 29, 2019.

  1. groutbrook

    groutbrook

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    Concise, informative press conferences too.
    He sticks to what he's good at.
     
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  2. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it funny how it always seems like certain coaches manage to find players to execute their game plans no matter what players they have on the field? Obviously it doesn't always happen but the best coaches seem to have players that "execute" more so then not. Looking at the steelers since Tomlin has taken this team, it is 100% clear to me that we win on talent 99% of the time. It's not often we out scheme the opponent. When we lose it's because the talent isn't there and/or the players are not executing. When we win it's usually Ben, Brown, Bell, or in past years defensive stars making big amazing plays.

    We have been a team full of power bats trying to win every game with a HR. If I could describe Tomlin's style of coaching this is it...his teams always try to set up big plays. When they give up more big plays then create we lose. This makes it easy for good coaches to game plan us and IMO is the exact reason why Belicheat beats us like a drum. This is not a philosophy you can win consistently with unless you have the best talent in the league year after year and even then it's nearly impossible to sustain. IMO.

    It's the coaches that have found a way to be efficient, play sound disciplined football in all facets, and excel at the details that seem to win consistently. Rarely do you see great coaches beat them selves by putting their players in long shots to win. That's Mike Tomlin's MO. Some of our past coordinators found success in bringing some element of consistency but they never seemed to overcome Tomlin's insistence on always trying to swing for the fence. This is been the personality of every Tomlin team. Unless your goal is to have the most exciting team to watch most weeks it doesn't work. When we try to play conservative football we typically lose because Mike Tomlin does not know how to coach a team to execute this style of play. His teams are sloppy so mistake free football is not going to happen. He's not a smart coach, he's a win it with brute force or big plays kinda guy.
     
  3. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

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    But let's not forget the fact that it's the coaches job to get the most out of the players he has. Funny how good coaches seem to draft better. Tomlin is all about hitting HR's and we seem to have a knack at finding big play guys for Ben to use. With out a healthy Ben and playmakers on defense Tomlin can't win.
     
  4. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    You talking about “splash” plays? lol. Everyone talks about Belichick being lucky to have Brady. How many SBs did he win with defense? Defenses that he put together himself with cast offs from other teams, just like this year. Oh they must just simply execute 100% of the time. There is such a thing of putting your players in a position to succeed. We need 8 number 1s to finally look decent. How about the fact we finally realized the importance of a true FS instead of pretending the position is interchangeable. That’s right, Tomlin doesn’t scheme the defense or pick the players.
     
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  5. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    I think we draft just fine. Yes we made mistakes but I think our biggest issue was/is undervaluing certain key positions and not utilizing players strengths by square peg/ round hole thinking.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    Let me put it this way:
    Take all the coaches that have coached in the NFL and line them up from the most successful to the least successful. Tomlin would be standing in what,the top 15%? Belicheat has skewed the reality of winning SBs. Top notch coaches only come along at 1 per decade. Everyone else is measured by failure to be that one. Doesn't mean that they are horrible, just not as good as the best coaches of their time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  7. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    I definitely hear what you’re saying and I’m not going to say he’s been a horrible coach for us. To me it’s just time for a change. The message just gets old sometimes. Our coordinators are terrible and Tomlin isn’t a X and O type that can bridge the gap. The league seems to be evolving and we’re stuck in the past. It’s time for fresh ideas or at least someone who is willing to recognize we need significant upgrades at the coordinator positions...all 3. Still waiting for someone to tell me what MT does and what he does exceptionally well. I’m sorry but motivator no longer cuts it in the league where O and D are constantly evolving.
     
  8. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    So you expect a HC to go out and win with talent like Miami or Cincinnati :facepalm:
     
  9. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid of change, you might end up like Denver, Cleveland, Cincinnati with a HC who look like they're in over their heads :shrug:.
     
  10. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hey SteelDeal. I stated something similar. You hit the nail on the head. Tomlin is not an X and O guy. However, that can be "bridged" as you stated with the assistance of a solid OC and DC who are X and O coaches. Unfortunately, it seems to me that neither our OC or DC are those type of coaches as well. As far as what Tomlin does well.... I guess Bradshaw summed it up best....rah! rah! The part about Tomlin that bothers me the most is that which is suppose to be his specialty....the secondary. This has been the weakest link since he got here. From drafting, to coaching them up, to putting them in position to be successful, he honestly has accomplished none of that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    You shouldn’t live in your fears. The fear of the unknown shouldn’t be a reason to keep your HC. Who was Tomlin before we hired him? You have to trust they will find a qualified coach. They also have to get away from the idea that you hire a coach for life. Denver? They won a SB a few years ago. It’s been 10+ for us....
     
  12. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    The Rooney's way of doing business has won 6 Super Bowls, I trust them over fans on a message board :shrug:.
     
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  13. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Oh I’ve been saying it for years around here. His strength is motivator. He was able to motivate a group of great players who were a year removed from winning a SB. He was the right guy for the right time. Coordinators were in place. Franchise QB was in place. Cowher lost his enthusiasm for the game and it was time to move on. Tomlin was a breath of fresh air. What has he done since? It’s time for fresh air seeing how he doesn’t master the X and Os and evidently doesn’t realize or doesn’t care that his coordinators are trash. They promote too frequently from within and that just helps to build complacency and lack of accountability.
     
  14. The Glory Days

    The Glory Days Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, they've been actively trying to promote Dirty Red to player/coach.
     
  15. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    They moved on from Noll and Cowher. Is it impossible to move on from Tomlin? Or does he have a lifetime contract? The Rooney(s) you speak of are no longer with us. What has Art 2 proven or is it just automatically in the genes?:shrug:
     
  16. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Cowher left on his own, Noll was struggling, Tomlin doesn't have a lifetime contract that's why he was only given a 1 year extension.
     
  17. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    So you trust the Rooneys when Art 2 hasn’t actually done anything to deserve your trust? All he has proven is he’s loyal to a coach and his coordinators that are underachieving. Old ways won’t open new doors. A lot of things used to work or were acceptable practices back in the day. Does that mean they are still right for present day? Do you think we have top coordinators? The Pittsburgh Steelers owners of 6 SBs can’t do better? There would be guys breaking down our doors for the opportunity to coach for this franchise. Instead we have 2 coordinators who will never be a coordinator in this league again. So who’s fault is that? the owner that you trust or the HC who some claim doesn’t make that decision?
     
  18. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    The Rooneys played their cards with resigning Ben. Tomlin is part of that hand. I'm ready for Popcorn to move on myself but looks like another 2 years for that to even be on the table.
     
  19. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    The coordinators are underachieving? Fichtner lost Ben a future Hall of Famer, AB and had to play the 2nd and 3rd string QBs. Butler has his faults, but the defense is top 3 in takeaways and sacks, also the offense doesn't do the defense any favors.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  20. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    The offense is still a work in progress. Until the offense gets competent play from the QB position they will be a work in progress.

    The defense has improved this season. They would probably be a better "statistical defense" if they received more offensive support.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. Rel

    Rel Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a MT apologist however I do have eyes and can look around the league and see similar issues to varying degrees everywhere (sans New England.) The head coaching situation in Pittsburgh is better than most of the league and an argument could be made that it's in the top 1/3rd of the league. Now, in responding to your list of items:

    1. MT is part of the decision making process when it comes to player personnel (along with the GM and the owner.) Most NFL coaches do not have sol discretion over player personnel decisions or drafting.
    2. MT is part of the draft pick process (along with the GM and the owner.) See above.
    3. MT isn't the OC (fact) however, as with all head coaches can override the OC when he sees fit.
    4. MT isn't the DC (fact) however, as with all head coaches can override the DC when he sees fit.
    5. MT isn't the ST coach (fact)
    6. MT approves the game plan that is developed among him and his team of coaches, he is ultimately responsible as the head coach
    7. MT is responsible for the locker room however he alone does not have final say in who is on this team (the GM and owner have a major say.)
    He is the head coach of an NFL team. Generally an NFL coach organizes and directs the team, coordinates planning and implementation of game play strategies, delegates duties to assistant coaches and coordinators, has final say on all major game decisions, and is responsible in motivating his team.
     
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  22. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for taking the time. You basically described the role of any HC in the NFL, especially with MTs tenure At least now we know if your assumptions are correct that MT does in fact deserve blame for the teams performance because if you listen to quite a few people around here MT isn’t responsible for any of those things. So the buck does/should stop with Tomlin it’s time he gets some blame to go with the credit as well. It’s not just player execution and performance it’s the HCs as well that determines wins and losses.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  23. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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  24. Jammasterc

    Jammasterc Well-Known Member

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  25. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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