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Russell Wilson Better than Ben All Time?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by mcam, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    We're tied now. With the cheaters!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the information Afan, Wasn't aware of Wilson's late game acumen. With Ben being my savior since he was part of bringing the Lombardi back to Pittsburgh I tend to have him as my favorite. Ben did turn things around in the Jacksonville playoff loss if I recall correctly.
    About the playoff records (GWD, 4QCB),. has Ben played in a significant amount of more playoff games than Wilson? If he has than yes Wilson is proving better, but if around the same amount then it's a wash.
     
  3. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Beer is good

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    Ben 21 playoff games, Wilson 13.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. MeanJoeBlue

    MeanJoeBlue Well-Known Member

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    2015 season. Denver had the #1 defense in both passing and rushing (by yards per attempt or carry).

    No other quarterback in the league reached 300 yards against that defense (with sack yardage included). Rodgers had 50 yards (77 minus 27 for sacks).
    Ben passed for 354 yards during the season.
    The playoff game was in Denver. Without the Steelers' starting RB or starting WR, he reached 311 yards.
    Since Ben didn't get a 4th quarter comeback, this doesn't show up in your stats. But that doesn't mean he didn't perform.
     
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  5. TuRnDoWnForWaTT

    TuRnDoWnForWaTT Well-Known Member

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    I like Russell Wilson as a quarterback. I may very well be looking at this through a homers eyes, but I do not believe he is on Ben's level as a quarterback. Honestly I don't even think its close.
     
  6. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think he was on the same level either but Afan has posted some convincing arguments that he is. Ben needs two more SB wins & he will be in the top tier argument without the black & gold glasses. (Always wanted him to best Bradshaw)
     
  7. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    Ben has played 21 playoff games, I'm giving him the 4 in 2005 (even with lousy SB performance) and the SB vs AZ, that leaves 16 games. You want to count the '15 game vs Den as a top playoff performance, fine. Another poster gave him credit for the near 'comeback' vs Jax. Shakier ground there, but ok. That leaves 14 games, these include: two poor playoff games in '04, the Tebow game, the home loses to Jax in '07 and Balt in '14, the ass beating in NE in '16, the gift of Cincy self implosion that followed blowing a 15 pt lead, a win at KC on 6 FGs.

    I'll stand by statement that a few games aside, Ben hasn't been much of a playoff QB.
     
  8. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Lets see when Russel has the same years of service as Ben does. Then we will look at.
    I am no Ben R lover either.
     
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  9. TuRnDoWnForWaTT

    TuRnDoWnForWaTT Well-Known Member

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    I am going with my own personal eye test on this one. The stats that AFAN may well be valid. I feel like based off what I have seen Ben is a far more complete quarterback. Again, I am a Ben fan, so my black and gold shades might be stunting my vision to an extent. I feel like Wilson struggles with the underneath stuff at times, but uses his legs to make up for the deficiency. When Ben is on his game he is one of the most accurate passers I have ever watched. Unfortunately, as we all know all to well, Ben isnt always on his game. Lets wait until Wilson has 10 or 12 years in before we compare his stats to Bens. His sample size is still to small IMO.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. dobbler-33

    dobbler-33 Well-Known Member

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    He ain't had much of a D since then either. Easier to come back when you can get some stops.
     
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  11. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    When Ben wins with a great defense, it's because Ben's great. When Ben doesn't win with an average or worse D, it's because the D Stinks.
     
  12. Junebug

    Junebug Well-Known Member

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    Taking nothing away from Ben's career, but right now, I'd much rather have Wilson than Ben. IMHO, "Big Ben" is on his way to becoming "Has Ben"......:)
     
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  13. MeanJoeBlue

    MeanJoeBlue Well-Known Member

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    That is half the argument. The other half blames him for every loss, and gives him little credit for any win.

    (To be clear, these past two years I put more blame on the offense than the defense, no matter how many leads were blown. When they only score 7 or less points in the second half of games, something is wrong.)

    I do think that 4thQ comebacks (the stat you've mentioned) is far overrated. It makes a QB who was terrible for 3 quarters and got bailed out by his WRs in the 4th quarter sound like a better player than a QB who did enough the entire game to put the score out of reach by the 4th quarter. (If Ben pulled out a win against Jacksonville last year, it would have been +1 for game-winning drives, but ignored how deep of a hole he dug for the team to start.)
     
  14. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    I would agree that 4th Q comebacks is overrated, and for the reason you mentioned. I suspect Tom Brady's 4thq comeback totals aren't great, but that because he's trying to beat you 30-0.
    However, for Ben it's a stat made for him. All too often, the team gets behind, usually because the offense stalls for the 1st half or turns the ball over. Then, Ben can go into Sandlot-mode and try to bail things out.
     
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  15. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I don't think 4th qtr comebacks are overrated at all. It shows you who is capable of delivering in crunch time.

    And it's not accurate to say that they played lousy for 3 qtrs. A QB can be playing well all game and his team still be behind. Hell, he can be playing great and still be behind.
     
  16. pjgruden

    pjgruden

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    Can I not like either QB's game?
    I've never been sold on Russell Wilson, and l just can't put my finger on why. To me, he just seems like a game manager, even if stats might say otherwise. Plus, with that contract he's recently signed, we'll see how good he really is when the team has no other pieces around him.
    As for Ben, he makes too many boneheaded mistakes. He'll play like a hall of famer one series, then like a pee wee benchwarmer the next. He's way too inconsistent for my liking.
    On the subject of SB wins, let's play the what-if game. Put the Seahawks in the AFC and the Steelers in the NFC. How many SBs would the Steelers have gotten to if they didn't have to deal with Brady every conference postseason? Would the Seahawks been able to get by the Pats?
     
  17. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    This guy agrees with you:


    [​IMG]
     
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  18. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    Well, in the Russell Wilson era, since 2012, the Steelers only faced the Pats once in the playoffs. It was the 2016 ass beating in the AFCCG. So I don't know that it makes much difference. I doubt an NFC based Stiler team in '16 was gonna beat that Matt Ryan Falcon team in an an NFCCG in Atlanta.
     
  19. dobbler-33

    dobbler-33 Well-Known Member

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    Not completely false nor wholly true. Both sides need to complement each other. I'm simply saying that it's hard to comeback with out getting some stops. It's also hard to comeback from digging yourself into a hole. They've had stellar D's with ****ty QBs quite a bit and for quite awhile around here at times... hard to have both sides shored up at all times for sure. I think they're both great QBs that were both helped by great D's at various points throughout their careers to date. Both also have their whoopsie moments as well.

    Still I stand by my comment that Wilson ain't **** until he head butts a moving vehicle without a helmet hahaha
     
  20. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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    Well find out who is better in our second game against seattle sept 15, wilson against ben, we have a slight edge with home field advantage but wilson has a habit of doing the unexpected to stay close in games and finishing strong....
     
  21. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    Easy Prediction: Wilson and Roethlisberger will both be HOF QBs.

    *HeinzMustard farts in the general direction of Tom Brady*
     
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  22. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    As if nobody’s documented comparative broken tackles yet...
     
  23. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    Another interesting stat on Russell Wilson, he's only thrown 3 Pick6s in his career. For comparison, Cam Newton and Andrew Luck has thrown 10 each, while throwing fewer TDs than Wilson. Rookie Josh Rosen has thrown 4. Marcus Mariota has thrown 6, Ben has thrown 16. Brady 13

    Wilson minimizes fatal mistakes. But still still scores TDs. I didn't walk into the discussion as part of the Russell Wilson Fan Club, but I might walk out of it that way.
     
  24. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    Maybe he would be more productive if he let it fly more. That stat reeks of holding on to the ball too often.
     
  25. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    Well, if Wilson is living by throwing 'safe' passes, it does not show up in his yd/att stats. The last 4 yrs his are slightly better than Ben's. If a guys gets more yds per pass, do you care if he gets them by letting it fly or dink/dunk?

    As far as productivity, in those 4 yrs, he thrown more TDs than Ben (with 10% fewer passes), has thrown 2/3 the Ints, gets slightly better yd/att, and was throwing to WRs named Curly, Larry and Moe. Not sure the path to productivity is by letting it fly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019

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