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Now they've ruined the off-season too!

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Stone, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Where did I call you a name? You've passively aggressively attacked just about everyone you have replied to, just giving you a taste of your own medicine. Don't like it, leave it out of your responses and I'll do the same.

    This is one of your "indisputable facts" in your other reply to me. It's just as patently false this time as it was the first time you said it. AB is 100% responsible for his value being shot to hell. If AB hadn't acted like a crack addict after Rooney made that statement and they still got a 3rd and 5th rd for him, you'd have a better argument but that's not what happened.

    Truth is, lot of what you are blaming Rooney for falls on Tomlin and AB. You don't want to see that though because you have an ax to grind.

    And as for Art apologist, I guess you don't actually read what others write because I already said Rooney should have cut Tomlin loose but unlike you, I spread the blame around.
     
  2. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    Bigot .... a person who holds blindly and intolerantly to a particular creed, opinion, etc. In the context I used it it means I always used the Rooneys track record be enough for me and I never allowed anyone to change that mindset. Kinda like you are now ..... except there are a host big differences between The Rooneys then and the Rooneys now:smiley1:
     
  3. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    I consider loopy and absurd as name calling. I have spread the blame in most of my posts where I refer to ownership/management, I just happen to believe that the guy in charge usually gets the lions share of the blame; it's how business works. And when people keep simply saying "nope", "you're wrong", or "just wait and see", there is no debate; just intolerance to an opinion they don't like.

    As far as AB, NFL players act like crack addicts every day. Good owners NEVER cut their own teams throat like Art did. For Christ sake, the Raiders signed Burfict to a $5M contract, If you think Art's comments had no effect on AB's trade value you are simply close minded.
     
  4. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    Q: How do you know what my mindset is?
    A: You don't
     
  5. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    It's not the opinion, it's the number of times this opinion is brought up. We get it! You don't like Rooney.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    No offense my friend, but the "just wait and see" opinion is brought up equally adnauseum ........ and has no foundation.

    Let's look at it from a different perspective, we are all Steeler fans and we all "hope" that they get it straightened out. Some of us have reasons for concern, some of us refuse to allow those reasons to penetrate their brain, but we are all Steeler fans.
     
  7. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    Some on here, actually, one on here's concerns border on obsessive.
     
  8. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    You mean like when you tell someone what they wrote was idiotic. Or when you said my response to you was absurd? See how that works.

    If you think players act like AB does all the time, then like you said, no sense discussing this any further.
     
  9. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    Not at all, but when someone presents what appears to be plain and simple logic, and that plain and simple logic is repeatedly answered by what appear to be emotional statements with no supporting basis, why should that person be obliged to stop presenting plain and simple logic?

    I do business analysis for a living and trust me, the "business" of the Steelers is a mess right now. Despite the fact that I have always been a devout Steeler fan, I cannot pretend like something that I am trained in and get paid well for simply doesn't exist. I'm not a homer, I just know that I grew up a Steeler fan and the Steelers are the winningest team since the 1970 merger and it's because they have always been managed very, very soundly; until about 3-4 years ago.
     
  10. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Beer is good

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    That would be nice.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, we won't discuss it any further.
     
  12. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    I wonder?

    I can assure you that if the Steelers turn this mess around and become over-achievers again, or even just stop being under-achievers, I will be here singing their praises and saying I was wrong about Art.

    I wonder if any of the Art apologists will be willing to admit they were wrong if, God forbid, I end up being right about Art? Or will they simply continue to contend that nothing is wrong?
     
  13. SteelerGlenn

    SteelerGlenn

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    Let it go man.
     
  14. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I didn't include you in that, I knew you wouldn't.
     
  15. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    2015 - underachieved in not winning division, overachieved in the playoffs after backing in (we were a very beat up team, and nearly took out the eventual champs)
    2016 - overachieved in reversing a 4-5 start to go 11-5 w/o Heyward. The loss in the AFCCG was par for the course - we were outgunned talent-wise in pass defense, and our offense had injuries (again). There was some out coaching there too, but New England out coaches everybody.
    2017 - overachieved getting to 13-3; underachieved badly in the playoff loss.
    2018 - dumpster fire starting with the Denver loss.

    I’m not saying things have been perfect, but most fan bases in the NFL would take the last 4 years that the Steelers have had over what their teams have done. Reality during the past few seasons is unsatisfying for a fan base that wants championships, but it’s hardly a disaster by NFL standards. There is a solid roster base, and enough of a track record to believe that the team can contend again. Hopefully some hard lessons have been learned.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Very Optimistic Very Optimistic x 1
  16. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    I wonder?
    I wonder what would happen if your logic were to cause everyone else on this site to have an epiphany and agree that Rooney is the problem?
    Nothing, because tomorrow Rooney would still be in charge, Tomlin would still be coach and Colbert would still be GM.
     
  17. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    And this message board would suffer from mass hysteria
     
  18. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your assessment but the underachieving goes back a lot further than 4 years. It goes back to when we got Tebowed....
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I disagree. We were beat up badly injury-wise for that game, plus Clark missing the game due to his sickle cell trait. Ben was hobbled with his ankle injury. Mendenhall was lost for the season the week prior. Pouncey was out. Woodley was out. We lost Keisel plus at least 1 significant O lineman during the game (I think Starks). There were a couple of others, but I'm not up for looking it up right now.

    I thought that we underachieved in 2013 and 2014 when it was happening, but when I reflected on it a year or two later, looking at our roster for those years, I came to the conclusion that we legitimately had an 8-8 kind of roster. Go back and look at who some of our starters were. We had some good players, but a lot of mediocre ones and good ones past their prime as well. If anyone looks back at the rosters for those years and says "Super Bowl contender," I think they're kidding themselves.
     
  20. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Maybe not true SB contenders but whenever you lose to a Tebow lead team ,it is underachieving. I don't care who is out. We had enough talent available the we should of won that game. Now if you want to blame the defensive gameplan and our refusal to make adjustments and not tha players themselves I would agree. I look at it including the coaching as underachieving. You may seperate the two. If I remember correctly Denver went to NE the following week and that same Tebow lead O looked like a Pop Warner offense. I stand by my assessment...
     
  21. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I'll stand by mine. The other thing that I didn't mention was that Tebow played far and away his best game as a pro that day. Not just statistically, but in terms of how accurate he was downfield with his throws. He did things that day that he never did before or after that game. I think the defensive game plan that day was appropriate for what Denver's offense had done all year: run, run, run. Yeah, we should have made some adjustments when we saw that he was playing out of his mind, but sometimes it's not that simple when you game plan all week for a dramatically different QB than what you've seen on tape, and are missing a key cog in your secondary plus pass rushers.
     
  22. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    The fact he played his best game ever in the NFL against us tells you all you need to know . To me it's proof we underachieved. Where you want to place th blame...the coaches or players doesn't change anything to me.
     
  23. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    Was that the year they had home field and a potential bye in their sights and Ben convinced Tomlin he could play against the 49ers and was a statuesque sack dummy?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Not sure of the year but I do remember quite well the ridiculousness of keeping Ben in that game.
     
  25. groutbrook

    groutbrook

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    The Tebow curse.
     

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