Is The NFL ruined or just negatively affected?

Trump's comments on kneeling has affected the NFL and it's community in a negative way. I even heard people saying that they'll stop watching football because it's gotten too political. The rule changes don't help either.

I understand that it's disrespectful to sit during any national anthem, but just look at what's happening. I just don't understand why the NFL is changing so much. There's no need to change something that has been working before.

Is it the new, incoming players? Does the nature of the league change as time goes along? Are the rule changes unnecessary?

Overall, people have a choice in life. I just want to watch football because it's one of my favorite sports, along with hockey. There's no need to ruin a league just because of someone's personal choice. Just stay inside the locker room or stand the tunnel away from the field if you don't want to stand during the anthem: Problem Solved

 

It's not just the misguided handful of NFL players (now ex-players) - it's essentially every form of entertainment where the person with the mic or in front of the camera feels compelled to impart their societal and political views on the masses whether it's TV award shows, music concerts, so-called late night comedians, sports journalists (print, radio, TV) and on and on. The minute any of these "experts" open their traps in unrelated areas, they are automatically alienating (at least) half of the audience. They may feel they are appealing to a larger segment of their respective audiences, but in reality it's their audiences who have shrunk in size (with the NFL in that boat).

I do agree with the OP that we just want to watch football, not be dragged into other unrelated matters. Just turn the dial to CNN or Fox if you want all the other stuff. This is my first and last post on this matter because the arguments will never be won.

 

The NFL commissioner Roger Goodell specifically has a problem dealing with social problems going all the way back to the ray rice abuse scandal, he doesnt know how to deal with controversies as they arise instead he makes them worse as he tries to fix them but instead he has a propensity to make them worse,


he allows politics to guide his judgement instead of addressing them in real time, he should have attempted to address the anthem kneeling when it started in pre season games last year, not wait for a year to put a band aid on it and call it fixed when obviously he has just caused more controversy to continue, he should have just made a rule that says everybody will stand during the anthem. And leave it at that like the NBA has, and in 95 they had an incident of a player not standing for the anthem but they dealt with it in real time:



The NBA had an anthem “controversy” two decades ago
Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf was a wiry 6’1 point guard with a lightning-quick jump shot. He would be the league’s all-time leading free-throw shooter by percentage, except he’s 39 attempts short of officially qualifying. During the 1995-96 season with the Denver Nuggets, he chose to sit or remain in the locker room during the national anthem.

No one noticed until a local reporter mentioned it in March. Once he did, many were outraged.

NBA commissioner David Stern suspended Abdul-Rauf for one game and negotiated a compromise: Abdul-Rauf would stand for the anthem, but he could do so with his eyes closed and head bowed in prayer. Abdul-Rauf was a devout Muslim and his religion was a major reason why he chose to originally begin his silent protest, so he complied with Stern’s request.

But Abdul-Rauf was traded to the Kings at the end of the season, lost sponsorships, and then lost his starting spot on his new team. When his contract expired in 1998, Abdul-Rauf was only 29, but no team showed interest in signing him. He was essentially blacklisted from the league, playing only 41 games three seasons later before officially retiring.

 

Kneeling for the flag is free speech. Once a player gets fined for kneeling and challenges it in court the courts are going to decide for the player and this rule will get thrown out.

The flag is ONE symbol of our nation and it's only a symbol. People need to stop worshipping dyed cloth. Oh, and before you question my loyalty to this nation, I'm retired military.

 

Freedom of speech doesn't apply here because they are being paid by their employer to play football and not to put on a civil demonstration while they are at their work place, employers have always had the right to make rules for their employees to abide by. You could say getting fined for everything from violating the dress code down to getting arrested but not charged then getting suspended by the league violates their civil rights, and violating the dress code violates their freedom of expression, and you know as well as I do being a 14 year ex military, when your in the military your constitutional rights end when you take the oath....Their freedom of speech isnt violated players are very vocal about their cause, if anything their right to demonstrate is, but no buisness would allow their workers to protest civil rights at their work place on company property..............

 

I'll chime in before this thread gets locked. You have a 1st amendment right to protest but, there are consequences to it. You don't get to say whatever you want. Try saying "bomb" at the airport! Try working at...………….say, GE, or Boeing, or Caterpillar and making a political statement. Especially on company time! Code of Conduct!

 

I remember having pork chop sideburns back when I was working in 74, the company told me to shave them off or I would be terminated, well I missed those sharp looking burns, but even today here in Arizona workers can be fired for being gay....

The state is one of 29 that provides no legal protections against discrimination based on sexual orientation. It’s also one of 34 states where being transsexual is enough to merit being fired.

 

Freedom of speech doesn't apply at work? Wow! Uh, yeah, it does. Freedom of speech doesn't mean that you can say whatever you want whenever you want. It's never meant that. What it does mean is that you can express your opinion even if that opinion is against what others believe and even if that opinion is against the government.

Employers can make rules but the courts can rule against those rules and they have. Employers don't have absolute power over you, they can enact rules that prevent you from saying certain things at work but those rules have limits.

When you are in the military your constitutional rights end? Wow! You really need to take a political science course. The military has more power over it's people than a normal job/employee relationship but they don't have absolute power. You don't lose all of your rights.

No business would allow their workers to protest civil rights at work on their property? Most businesses don't force their workers to stand for the national anthem either other than just the military and athletes.

 

THAT explains why so many people have been fired over something they've put on social media! Thanks for clarifying!

 

Football used to be a sporting event, entertainment to relieve the stresses of daily lives.

50 years an NFL fan.

I quit watching because it is no longer that entertaining distraction. It has become a social justice platform not worthy of my money.

Until the NFL figures it out, I, as well as millions of former fans, am done with it.

 

Okay, once again since you missed it, freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say anything you want any time you want. It's never meant that. Kneeling for the national anthem is not a protest against the NFL so the NFL is going to have a difficult time enforcing rules against it and the issue is standing for the national anthem, not social media. If people are going to take it (getting fired for something they've posted online) and not challenge it in the courts then the courts can't make a decision on it. It has to be challenged.

The NFL will lose this in court if someone challenges it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't support kneeling during the national anthem. I stand but if someone doesn't want to stand then so what. My father was a Jehovah's Witness so I was forced to sit during the national anthem one time when we went to see the circus. I never became a JW and I actually joined the military to get away from all that nonsense.

You guys have got to relax. People around the world do all kinds of dumb things, you're getting upset over something that isn't harming a single person.

 

I didn't miss a thing. As an employee, the company has every right to restrict your speech (or social stands) if it reflects badly on the company! In this case, the NFL. everyone knows that the protests have nothing to do with the flag. It's the platform. If you want to protest, do it when you're not at work! If your companies code of conduct allows it! If you have the cash for Gloria Allred to represent you against ABC Widgets for firing you for a breach of the COC, then spend it.

 

The company has a right to restrict speech if it reflects badly on the company? Only to a certain degree. They don't have absolute power to enforce your beliefs to become the same as their beliefs.

As for having the money to file a lawsuit, welcome to the great US of A where the legal system is, to some degree, based upon how much money you can pay for lawyers and experts. You either have to be able to afford it or you have to get a lawyer who is willing to argue it for free. Or, if you have a free speech case the American Civil Liberties Union might just take the case for free.

 

I don't know what the NFLs code of conduct states but having, until very recently, worked for a wholly owned subsidiary of a multi-billion dollar company I can attest to the fact that their code of conduct is very clear and known BEFORE you take the job. They can't control your beliefs but, they can certainly control when, and to whom, you can state them.

 

No business code of conduct supercedes a judges ruling.

It just has to be challenged in court. The NFL will lose.

 

Then the NFLPA would have already challenged it in court if they thought the NFL would lose, Kapernick and Reid is suing them claiming the NFL has colluded with teams to keep them from playing with a team because of their kneeling during the anthem, thats going to be hard to prove, just like age discrimination lawsuits have been hard to win, and they will most likely lose this court case.......

 

How's these theories working out for Roseanne?

 

You can't challenge it because it just now became a rule and no player has been penalized for kneeling yet. You have to have some penalty, some loss of pay or other penalty for practicing free speech.

Kaepernick and Reid won't win because they won't be able to prove it. They were never fined for kneeling and no team owner is going to admit that all of the owners agreed to not sign them even if that did happen.

 

You think "free speech" means you can say whatever you want whenever you want. That's not what it is.

I never said you can always say whatever you want and it won't affect your job. I said that employers can't restrict "free speech". Everything people say on a job or off isn't considered protected free speech.

Here's the way it works, governments and employers act then it's challenged in court. The courts decide after the fact whether it's free speech or not. But you have to challenge it in court and Roseanne does not appear to want to take it that far since she apologized already.

Roseanne didn't say anything about the national anthem or the flag, she posted something racist.

Also, you might want to look up the time that Roseanne sang the national anthem and she sang it horribly on purpose and people boo'd. That's free speech.

She could also claim that her recent twitter post was an attempt at comedy and not a political statement. I doubt she would win that one.

 

I live in San Diego. You've maintained that employers can't fire someone for something they put on social media. There's also a cop in S. FL who got suspended for putting something on FB against David Hogg. Employers can, and do discipline employees for their opinions. Sure, these people can spend a butt-load of money on lawyers fighting a cause that can't be won, or maybe you think the Roseanne's of the world could get a judge and jury to find in their favor? Not a chance.
Yes, I get that kneeling before a game and "twatting" a racist statement are not the same, just the whole 1st amendment thing.

 

Incorrect. I never said you can say whatever you want and I never mentioned anything about social media. The argument is kneeling for the national anthem. You are trying to spin it and make it about ALL other forms of speech when that's not what I said.

IN FACT, in the post above yours I stated, "you can't say whatever you want whenever you want."

The cop in Florida did not kneel for the national anthem. Roseanne did not kneel for the national anthem. You're confusing any speech with what the Supreme Court has defined as protected speech.

The 1st Amendment has been interpreted to mean that you have a right to express your opinion but NOT if that opinion is harmful or incites riots. Kneeling for the national anthem only gets primitive people enraged. I am retired military and I could care less whether some idiot kneels for the national anthem or not. He's only shooting himself in the foot but people have a right to a certain level of self destructive behavior.

 

What this comes down to is that you guys don't understand protected speech. You think free speech means you can, or should, be able to say whatever you want whenever you want. The truth is that NO society on the planet allows that. Not even tribes. If you disagree with the tribal chief and say something bad about him you might be kicked out of the tribe or worse.

You have the right to express your opinion as long as it does not cause harm. Now, we can debate what is harmful and what is not but kneeling for the national anthem is not harming anyone. If your underwear gets all knotted up because some guy doesn't express his love for this country the same exact way you do, well, that's YOUR problem that YOU created for YOURSELF. It's not my problem nor is it anyone elses problem.

I watch football to see a football game, not see someone stand for the national anthem.

 

I'm not going to go over everything that was brought up in a thread that's since been locked. My assertion has always been that an employer can restrict what you say and do that reflects negatively on the "company" You seem to think that all anyone needs to do is get a lawyer and challenge. Roseanne could do that. So could Tim Allen. So could the suspended cop. In today's USA, they would never win. The only thing I have against kneeling is that it shouldn't be done on company time.

 

Employers can restrict what you say to a degree. I never said they couldn't. What I said was they don't have absolute power to restrict everything you say. They cannot restrict protected free speech. The problem is that you don't understand what is protected free speech and what isn't. You think free speech means that you can say anything you want.

Once again, Roseanne did not kneel for the national anthem and the cop did not kneel for the national anthem. If Roseanne sues, she will lose. Hate speech is not protected speech.

You say the kneeling players should not do it on company time? The NFL is not the "big men who stand during national anthem" league. It's the National Football League. It's supposed to be about football. You can still play football without playing the national anthem. I played football many times on the street and in parks, not once did we stand around and have someone sing the national anthem before playing.