big nickle and big dime defenses

steelers depot was reporting on the big nickle packages that they will use this year as well as big dime packages.

both packages were what was used against NE last year. they are to slow down the pass catching TE's. they use an extra safety and corners taking the NT and a LB off the field. spence falls into the catagory of the smaller backer they are looking at to use more in coverage. as i've said before, i think he will be used instead of troy up near the line more as troy ages. i wouldn't rule rolle out either in these roles. i hope they do this to keep troy healthier longer in his career. it just makes sense. i knew the mad scientist was up to something in his lab under heinz field.

 

Oh man I can't wait for this new season to start!!! Deep down I am hoping for some of those trickery plays we used in Ben's 2005 Superbowl season. That was fun stuff. And very effective. We always tried from our 40ish yard line.

This is what the first guy who got the new version of the American muscle cars felt like. I like the new breed Baracuda the most.

 

I'm excited to see this too. Given that last season it was all about "everybody knows how to beat the Steelers", we showed some good adaption to the spread offense.

We have players on the D who can play all over the field, and I see Spence as adding to that depth. So I hope we do use packages that can exploit that.

 

I'm with you guys but just remember Spence IS a rookie and most likely wont see much action, aside from ST's play, which I actually see him excelling at right away.

 

I think we used Big Nickle and Big Dime only because that's who Lebeau felt was the best personnel available, not some planned change.

Last year when we went to 5 DB's it was often moving Gay inside to slot and bringing Lewis in to play outside CB. Other times it was leaving Gay alone on the outside and bringing Mundy in as a 5th DB. Often in the red zone we always went "heavy" but at other parts of the field we went traditional nickle.

Also, Lebeau really doesn't like Dime defense. It was very odd and a big change for him to go dime so often versus New England (40 time in 50 snaps). But also remember we were very short handed at linebacker in that game. Farrior was out (that's a big change in general). Woodley only played 50% of the snaps (he got injured). Harrison was out. Worilds was out. We basically played the game without our top 3 pass rushers. Heck, Carter got 22 snaps that game as a rookie and Timmons was inside/outside all game. Also the New England game was Hampton's first coming back from his injury that kept him out weeks 4-6. Hampton only got 9 snaps.

I think the dime defense we played vs. New England was as much because of strategy as it was because of our linebacker/D-line situation.

 

Well, maybe an old dog can learn new tricks. New meaning that maybe what he didn't like about it as much before was not so sound. And maybe with his players healthy that system could be far better. Or, just throw it in there for a few more games to keep defensive film rooms guessing and not keying as much.

Are you trying to piss on our parade? Just kidding.... :hello:

 

they talked about the injuries in the article, but this is now a planned defensive attack and spence was a planned added piece of the puzzle. smaller LB, bigger safety mix. it's all because of the pass receiving TE's that are so integrated into alot of offenses now. it was so easy for teams with good qb's to pick apart a zone base defense. where we used to make receivers pay for the catch play after play, we can't do that anymore. it was part of that defensive stratagy. beating up the receivers by games end to make them think about that catch by late in the game. the rule has taken that part of our defensive stratagy away from us. it's why we were so upset by the rule changes in favor of the receivers. it hurt our defense moreso then other teams, because we made a living with it. there was also an article about our new corners having more man ability then guys we used to pick. now with the tighter coverage, we can do more with smaller faster players and it also helps the pass rush. the 3 step drop is not as open with these guys in coverage as it would be in a zone coverage so the qb has to hold the ball a little longer creating a smaller pocket. it should be interesting to watch.

 

I would not get your hopes up that Spence will get many meaningful snaps on defense this year. Unless he just lights it up in camp and preseason, I think Lebeau is very content letting him play special teams and watch from the sideline his rookie year.

Barring injuries, this season will feature a platoon of Foote and Sylvester playing LILB and Timmons at his traditional RILB spot. Just my opinion.

 

I think this is a proving ground type year for Sylvester. If he shows he can do the job, we might bring in a 4th or 5th round pick in next year's draft to replace Foote who is a UFA. If he doesn't, it will immediately be the #1 draft priority for this team.

 

On a side note about LeBeau, I love how even our own fans are talking about him like he's all washed up and the game has passed him by. We shut down the unstoppable New England (one TD very late, and it took them forever to get it, and one TD handed to them by a Roethlisberger INT giving them first and goal from inside the 10). Meanwhile, he shut them down without Harrison, Farrior, Woodley for half the game... guys like Chris Carter, Sylvester playing instead. And our offense got all the credit for that win. He's falling to pieces because our run defense was so pitiful last year (8th) and his pass defense can't keep up with the new pass-heavy NFL (1st).

I know we played some bad quarterbacks, and I know he had too much faith in his players against Denver, but I just don't know what people want from the guy. We slip out of the top 5 in one category and he's done? Talk about spoiled.

 

I don't think people "Bash" Lebeau. But I do think we critique any trend or change from years past. And we critique game-to-game performances.

In most games, the negative discussions just outweigh the positive discussions. The losses get more discussion that the victories. That's the nature of sports talk.

Tomlin/Lebeau have a masterful game plan vs. New England, the players execute well and we'll talk about it for a few days and look forward to the next game. Tomlin/Lebeau have a bad gameplan vs. Denver, the players fail to execute and that loss will stick in my memory and crawl for YEARS. That's kind of what it is to be a fan. We have high expectations and the losses sit with us a lot more than the victories.

 

Bingo!

Talk therapy. It helps....!

 

That's how it is to be a Steeler fan, anyway. I have no experience with this, but I'd imagine that wins stick more than losses for Cleveland fans.

I don't know if I'd call it bashing or not, but I've seen more than a handful of people saying outright that he can't keep up with the game, the changes are too much for him, and it's passing him by. I've seen zero evidence of this. I thought that despite a slow start, the defense did pretty well considering the injuries it had and the inconsistence of the offense.

I agree with the rest. The defense barely even got any credit for the NE game that week. All the focus was on one offensive drive.

 

alot will depend on how they use him. if he's in certain packages, they will use him. then it won't take him learning the whole defense all at once before he sees the field.

 

This is all well in good this talk, but you people are missing
the biggest picture of them all. HOW DO YOU GET PRESSURE ON THE QB?
WE FAILED TERRIBLY AT IT LAST YEAR,lets face it, the league has minimized Silverback
Woodley usually plays a half of season, Out of shape first half,plays well for 4 games
then gets hurt. We have to have our DL able to create SACKS! Come on Dick lets get these
DL up and after the QB.

 

While I agree with the fact that we were dismal at getting after the QB last year I have to disagree with the notion that the DL needs to get sacks. That is just not their role. Taking on the blockers so the LBs or DBs get sacks is what they do. Collapsing the pocket and hurrying the QB is a bonus.

I'd say the even more important piece of the puzzle is turning that QB pressure into turnovers. Our turnover differential last year was -13. Are you kidding me? That was good for 29th in the league. God only knows how we managed a 12-4 record. I checked the nfl stats back to 1991, which is the furthest back nfl.com has turnover differential numbers and this was by far the lowest we had. The 2 next closest were -8 in Cowher's phone-it-in season and -4 early in the 2000s. I would wager that this may be the lowest number in Super Bowl era Steelers history. A total lack of turnovers makes even a 1st in pass 8th in run defense look like they are on the wrong side of mediocre.

 

Woodley had 9 sacks in 10 games last season (and two of those games he left due to injury and played less than 25 snaps). Harrison had 9 sacks in 11 games last season. And they only played TOGETHER the first four games of last season.

And neither has a history of injury. Woodley started 47 of the previous 48 regular season games. Harrison started 63 of the previous 64.

Our pressure will go up a lot with a healthy Harrison and Woodley and Timmons back inside, where he belongs, a full 16 games as well.

 

In case you're not familiar with Wardismvp, he considers Lamarr Woodley to be an out of shape, overrated, overweight half-assed player who only tries occasionally. As far as I can tell, he bases all of this on sack statistics. If he doesn't have a sack for a game or two, it's because he's lazy, not because of any other reason. His run defense is never considered. I've had to start ignoring him because it all falls on deaf ears.

What I didn't realize is that he's now lumping James Harrison in. Minimized? I would say he must have only caught weeks 4-8 last year, except that's when Woodley was at his best. There's really no explanation. He also advocated cutting Cortez Allen last year.

 

Watch how out of shape Woodley generally comes into camp,
in his production, around week four he gets in shape it then gets hurt misses games.
This is the pattern that I see from him. Takes alot of plays off Watch his play thats all
I am saying he could be so much more if he dedicated himself.
As far as Silverback is concerned I believe the league has
changed his game from what it use to be, that and age.He use to be Lloyd like,
now,I am not so sure. I have never advocated Cortez Allen being cut. Why would I do this? The young
man needs some time against much better competition then he had at the Citadel, well I still think Brown is the better ball player this is just my opinion. Of course in your book no one else is allowed their opinion.

 

That's a serious problem. I would not watch sports anymore if I had to walk around with that negative burden.

 

you also need to consider who's playing in front of, or next to woodley and silverback at times. silverback had some injuries last year and should be back with a vengence. he's far from too old. losing aaron smith from the line means alot more then most think when it comes to our LB'ers and remember keisel has been nursing injuries for a couple of years at times too. it changes our OLB'ers games more than you are realizing wardis. add a few injuries where it takes a toll on their legs and yes, they did have a let down, but it's not the norm. look at troy. take away his legs and he's pretty average. it's not always just about a single playes abilities or slacking off or out of shape, so much is about the players around them and nagging injuries. it's part of the game.

 

Where did you get the idea that Woodely comes into camp out of shape?

 

Every year, message boards talk about new wrinkles and schemes in our defense. Two years ago it was Keisel standing up and being a "rover" (anyone remember that thread??? - it was 5 pages long).

The truth is Lebeau will stick with what got him here and what has worked year to year to year. He doesn't play dime unless he really has to. The New England game was very unique due to injuries and matchups. That will be the exception, not the norm.

"Heavy Nickel" vs. "Traditional Nickel" is just a personnel choice between Mundy vs. #3 CB. It will matter in certain matchups versus certain teams. But one is not better than the other. And I would think Traditional (three CB's) will be run about twice as often as the "Heavy" package with Mundy.

Nothing is really going to change from our traditional zone blitz concepts. As long as Woodley, Harrison and Polamalu are on the field, that is what we are going to play. Pretty much the same thing we've been seeing for the last 5 seasons. It works as well as any defensive system in the league, but that doesn't mean it works all the time. Nothing does. Lebeau just believes it works better than most and gives him the best chance of getting the other team off the field.

 

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/05/st ... the-table/ i think it will change more then you think del. i think your wrong about just staying with what used to work. i think troy's in here with a rare showing because they wanted him here to learn the new schemes with these young talents, not just out of dedication. he knows the regular defense. spence and rolle are also here for a reason. things are going to change and keep up with the times. this just isn't the same ol defense anymore. the faces and skillset is changing. so is the league. http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/05/di ... e-in-2012/

 

You said we should cut Allen during the preseason, because he had been hurt for so long and hadn't even seen the playing field yet. You were frustrated by the fact that his draft status was keeping him on the team while UDFA players actually on the field were getting cut. You said it a number of times on the old board, but that stopped around the time the season started and he was making plays on special teams.

I saw every play Woodley was in last year, and in all but one of those games I graded them individually. I didn't see him take any plays off.

For Harrison, what are you basing this on? Is it a prediction from the future? I know what the league is trying to do, and I know he's getting older, but these things haven't toned down his game yet. It's one thing to make a prediction, but if you're claiming it already happened, I don't know what games you were watching.