What happened to this team finding hidden gems?

Seriously. If you aim to build a contender, you need to find some great players other than 1st round picks. They used to excel at this, and it's logical to feel that dumb luck alone should accomplish finding some diamonds in the rough.

What we had found, just in the modern era alone.

Greg Lloyd 6th round.
Hardy Nickerson 5th.
Merril Hoge 10th.
Thomas Everett 4th.
John Jackson 10th.
John Haselrig 12th.
Carnell Lake 2nd.
DJ Johnson 7th.
Barry Foster 5th.
Ernie Mills 3rd.
KIrkland 2nd.
Joel Steed 3rd.
Darren Perry 8tth.
Chad Brown 2nd.
Hastings 3rd.
Kevin Henry 4th.
Buckner 2nd.
Jason Gildon 3rd.
Lee Flowers 5th.
Earl Holmes 4th.
Orpheus Roye 6th.
Mike Vrabel 3rd. (mis-used in Pgh, became a star in NE).
Hines Ward 3rd.
Townsend 4th.
Fu 6th.
Porter 3rd.
Aaron Smith 4th.
Marvel Smith 2rd.
Kendrel Bell 2nd.
Chris Hope 3rd.
Brett Keisel 7th.
Ike Taylor 4th.
Lamar Woodley 2nd.

Now, let's flip to more recent drafts....SOME awesome hits, but much fewer.

Ant Brown 6th.
Manny Sanders 3rd.
Gilbert 2nd.
Bell 2nd.
Vince Williams 6th.
Bryant 4th.
JuJu 2nd.

Yes, shorter span of years, but that's about it. Face it, our "smartest guys in the room" ain't really smarter than that many other clubs. We used to be. But the last decade marks a period where we were not all that savy in the draft at finding hidden gems, and we desperately need them.

 

I wouldn’t count a 2nd or 3rd rounder as a hidden gem, particularly?

 

I'm gonna really oversimplify this...Modern technology...All teams have so much access to anylitics, film, money to send a team of numerous scouts in many directions where unlike years ago you have a certain scout that says " Hey, I seen this kid from Hillbilly State University that I don't think anybody knows about...Every team knows about every player from every team now...All you can hope for now, Is that your group of scouts and coaches are more adept about picking out intangibles, fits, nuances, and other various factors than opposing organizations

 

Yea, I thought of that, however when you look at our recent 2nd and 3rds, you may reconsider.

Sutton 3rd. (Too early to say, but he ain't lighting the world on fire so far).
Hargrave 3rd. (He plays, but he is just OK, not belonging on the list of breakout players yet.)
Davis 2nd. (Yea, he's a starter, but a below average one.)
Golson 2nd. (Never made the field in entire career. That's a bad 2nd round pick.)
Coates 3rd. Showed promise, but fell back to earth and wasn't anything to brag about for a 3rd rounder.
Dri Archer 3rd. A complete waste of a 3rd round pick and worthless. Terrible waste of a 3rd round.
Wheaton 3rd. Meh
Mike Adams 2nd. A total FAIL.
Curtis Brown 3rd. Worthless.
Limas Sweed 2nd. FAIL.
Bruce Davis 3rd. Worthless.

As you can see, the Steelers have more blunders than hits with 2nd and 3rd round picks as of late.

 

Yeah - but none of that suggests a 2nd or 3rd round pick constitutes a hidden gem.

 

That has been the case for a long time now, including the time when all of the guys in the original post were drafted.

Take Merrill Hoge as an example. Every team in the NFL knew about him. Hell, as a 15-year-old who bought Mel Kiper, Jr's draft guide that year, I knew about Hoge well before the 1987 draft. If I remember correctly, Kiper actually mentioned that Hoge would be a perfect fit for Pittsburgh in his blurb about the running back from Idaho.

Of course, there were some issues with the original post. Vrabel is an example. He wasn't misused in Pittsburgh. He was stuck behind two outside linebackers who were better.

Also, the idea that you find hidden gems in the second round is just silly.

 

The 2nd and 3rd round picks prior to recent 2nd and 3rd round picks kicked the sh-t out of our recent 2-3 round picks. Just look at this rubbish.


Sutton 3rd. (Too early to say, but he ain't lighting the world on fire so far).
Hargrave 3rd. (He plays, but he is just OK, not belonging on the list of breakout players yet.)
Davis 2nd. (Yea, he's a starter, but a below average one.)
Golson 2nd. (Never made the field in entire career. That's a bad 2nd round pick.)
Coates 3rd. Showed promise, but fell back to earth and wasn't anything to brag about for a 3rd rounder.
Dri Archer 3rd. A complete waste of a 3rd round pick and worthless. Terrible waste of a 3rd round.
Wheaton 3rd. Meh
Mike Adams 2nd. A total FAIL.
Curtis Brown 3rd. Worthless.
Limas Sweed 2nd. FAIL.
Bruce Davis 3rd. Worthless.

 

Don't forget our udfa's... finding hidden gems doesn't end with the completion of the draft

Chris Hubbard, BJ Finney, villanueva, roosevelt nix, etc....

We're still doing it and doing it well

 

Vrabel was an all pro in NE. And I guess you haven't been paying attention to our recent 2nd round picks.

 

If we were really "doing it well" this team wouldn't be so thin in so many spots. For instance, the drafting of LBs has been poor. Jones was a bust and Dupree is only two steps better. Missing on those picks hurt bad. Davis was a poor pick at S. A 2nd rounder. Can't miss on those either.

 

We're actually stacked at most spots..... our depth is the envy of quite a few teams ...where are we really thin at besides safety and rb, and I say rb grudgingly

 

Honestly? You think we have any dept at OLB and ILB? TE? CB? DL?

 

Cb is stacked..... Haden and burns are a good combo... burns is still learning and will bounce back.... Brian Allen is definitely one of those aforementioned hidden gems and cam sutton is my candidate for a breakout, and I haven't even started on hilton yet

Our ilb's are good...... just not Ryan shazier good.. that will be addressed in the draft.... I think you're just a little spoiled

I like Jesse James Vance and Grimble here... can it be upgraded.... of course, but I won't be upset if we stand pat

Aside from nt, our d-line is set

Our starting olb's are set for now and we have some good developmental prospects being groomed..... looked for one of those hidden gems in the late rd of this draft

 

I'd say A.B. was a pretty good find.

 

Vrabel was named All-Pro once, in 2007, seven years after he left the Steelers. I guess New England needed that long to figure out how to use him, too?

He was stuck behind better, more established players in Pittsburgh. He played well, but the real difference was that he got the chance to play more in New England. Your statement that he was misused was incorrect.

Also, your statement that hidden gems are found in the second round is incorrect. It shows a lack of understanding of the talent level available in the second round. Those are still premium picks in the second round. There is nothing hidden about those guys.

Yes, the Steelers did a better job in those rounds in the past than they have in recent years, but lumping second rounders in with guys taken in the sixth and seventh round simply shows a lack of understanding of the draft.

blackandgoldpatrol also pointed out a huge flaw in your argument, that you left out free agent signings such as Villanueva, Nix, Hubbard and Finney. Mike Hilton wasn't a draft pick, but he sure as hell qualifies as a hidden gem the Steelers found.

 

I agree that our 2nd and 3rd round picks have not been great in the last ten years.

 

Could it be, oh I don't know, coaching? Asking for a friend.

 

I wiuldnt call davis poor

 

One other thing to consider is post 2005 we were one of the few if only team that used the 3-4 so finding that gem was a lot easier since we didn't have to worry about anyone else playing this defense. Since then so many teams have made the switch to a 3-4 that finding that gem is a lot harder now as so many other teams are drafting the same kind of players now.

 

He is poor. So is burns.

 

Ramon foster UDFA. Harrison. Eli Rogers. Grumble. Jesse James a later pick. Walton. Feiler. Many other players that fit roles. We had quite the turnover in old scouts. Many finally retired. We still have Brian Allen that may still be pretty good. Kieon Adams YTBD. Malik golden had a good preseason last year until injury. Huguenin played well last preseason. Marcus Tucker. Many guys that still may make some noise before it's over.

 

Well, now that you've copied and pasted exactly the same post I responded to, I have completely changed my mind.

 

Let's see how they both play without Mitchell there to offer nothing. I know Burns looked bad at times but if you go back and look a lot of them plays he was expecting help over top and it never happened. Also I am thinking Davis will have a new role and be more of the center field type and I think he is better at that. I hope I am right as this will help this team turn around from what we saw last season cause that was bad.

 

Here are the top 3 picks for the last 5 years. So out of 15 top picks we hit on Watt,Juju,shaz,tuitt,Bell.

but from 4 on we got some good ones.
Landry Jones
Vince Williams
McCullers
Jesse James
Dirty Red. lol

2017
1. watt- shows promise, but with porter I dunno lol
2. juju- studd
3. Sutton -flashes of something I guess


2016
1. burns= sucks so far
2. davis = sucks so far
3. hargrave= started awesome then died lol

2015
1.bud the dud=underwhelming
2. senquez lolson = dude died every practice lol
3. coates = potential but watered down martavis
(what a bad draft class lol)

2014
1. Shazier= amazing, but RIP
2. tuitt= really good when not hurt
3. dri..nvm, lets forget that


2013
1. Jarvis the bones Jones= needed to juice like the rest of em. slow and weak, not a good combo
2. bell = stud. just wants to suck the steelers dry. RIP
3. wheaton= meh

I would agree with others, the UDFA pickups and some FA acquisitions have been tremendous to fill in our needs.

 

Who was backing Haden? He had his side of the field locked down all year and we played a lot of cover 3 and burns was getting burned. If you are in a deep 3rd the number 1 priority is to not get beat deep. And he most of the time PLAYS OFF even when he's in man. He especially was getting toasted when Haden went down. Davis ok let's see him move to free safety but I already saw his ball instincts and playmaking ability is not there. I dont think he has the quickness to be that elite safety he did decent zone covering in the box playing the hook and curl or the flats but his problem with that is he cant cover people in the slot and he's not that good of a tackler. I've already seen enough from both.