The ultimate Catch 22

I started to name this thread "another Tomlin thread" just to drive some of my fellow board members bonkers, lol (as if they weren't already ). The last sentence in this article is the best summary of where the Steelers are at this very moment and I'm afraid that we as Steeler fans will just have to live with it for the next several seasons...

Simply put, Tomlin is too good to let go. But it's fair to start wondering if he is good enough as a head coach to ever get the Steelers back to the Super Bowl.

http://triblive.com/sports/columnis...im-benz-breaking-down-the-mike-tomlin-paradox

Sometimes you've got to recognize that you can only go so far with a particular coach and have the guts to make a controversial decision for the overall benefit of the organization.

Are the Steelers currently in the ultimate Catch 22?

 

Steeler fans are beyond having good regular seasons to just get to the playoffs, and then losing in the games that matter, Marty Schottenheimer was fired as the chargers head coach after a 14-2 season losing at home as the one seed to you guessed it, the stinking cheaters, so regular season wins are only the means to get to the games that count, and it's nothing more than that.......

 

IMO he has one more year to put his money where his mouth is. I don't wanna see some coordinators and position coaches being fired next year as scapegoats all of a sudden. This is a make or break for our entire staff. If we don't see marked improvement in all our glaring areas of weakness,it's time to cut bait. I'm willing as a fan to take a chance on Ben's last couple years with a new regime and a breath of fresh air.....

 

After fifteen minutes, the refs in NYC decided that your argument was shaky when you went to the ground.
It has been ruled the ultimate Incomplete 22.

 

I just hope the most important person, Rooney recognize it and has the guts to make the right decision on Tomlin and the coaching staff. I give it one more year, but I will be watching and listening very closely on his end of the season press conference and have a better feel the future of this team.

 

Tomlin proved that he can take this team to the Superbowl. I believe he can help this team make it to the Superbowl again.

 

Is that because of his clock management, or situational football knowledge, his team discipline, or team tackling, team communication skills or his great defensive mind.

 

That's a fair point but I've got a serious question. It's been 9 years since we've been to the Super Bowl in spite of having superior talent on offense than most every AFC team for the better part of the last 5 years. We hear it said that Tomlin took the team to the Super Bowl but most of the players were Bill Cowher's players. That may or may not be a fair observation, but what I don't think we can dispute is that the team that went to the Super Bowl a decade ago had tremendous veteran leadership and I personally believe that the reason they went to the Super Bowl had more to do with that strong veteran leadership than the head coach. Think about it. A decade ago, the Steelers had players like Aaron Smith, Casey Hampton, James Farrior, Troy Polamalu, Jerome Bettis, Hines Ward, Heath Miller, Alan Faneca, Brett Kiesel. If there were any discipline issues in the locker room, these guys took care of it. We now have a team with several goofballs and a player's coach who lets them do their thing. To me, this is not a good combination. The kind of coach the Steelers need now is not a player's coach, but more of a disciplinarian who can bring some of these tremendous athletes who lack self-discipline into line. Anyway, JMHOFWIW.

 

Has Tomlin become Andy Reid or Marty Schottenheimer? Outside of the 2016 playoff run to the championship game, we haven't had much playoff success (since 2010)

 

Yes, but what's confusing is Andy and Marty are polar opposites when it comes to coaching style and approach, and Tomlin is somewhere in the middle...I think?

 

I'm thinking more macro, both coaches have been very successful in the regular season, but failures in the playoffs.

 

since 2010

2011= tebow disaster, one and done
2012= no playoffs
2013= no playoffs
2014= raisins disaster, one and done
2015= should've lost to bengals, but bengals gonna Bengal
2016= beat a backup Miami qb, then a bigger choker in andy ried and then got exposed.
2017= wheres the defense mang? one and done

So after the superbowl loss we have had 3 one and done's, 2 no playoffs, 1 bengaling, and 1 run pretending lol.

Wow I'm negative

The standard is the standard

 

My opinion is Coach will be there as long as Ben is around. I don't see a major change like that before the"rebuilding" begins. When new coaches come in then typically the offense is overhauled. I don't see Rooney doing this to Ben. Without success in the next 2 - 3 years then Ben will retire and the Steelers may move past Tomlin but we all know they are a loyal bunch to coaches.

 

Football is a team sport right? Takes more than offense to win games. It takes all 3 phases to win games in the NFL.

I don't believe in the superior talent hypothesis. Every team in the NFL has talent.

Sometimes the talent wasn't on the field due to injury, suspension, or another reason. On top of it sometimes Ben didn't play well enough. There were times mistakes ie turnovers derailed the Steelers or the defense didn't play well enough.

I don't care who Tomlin helped lead to the Superbowl. He showed that he is capable of leading teams to the Superbowl.

Did the players in the Steelers locker room handle Ben when he was running around? Nope. Holmes? Nope. The organization, the league, and ultimately Ben handled the situation. The disciple issue gets blown way out of proportion. Every team has a few questionable apples.

Please don't forget that the Steelers disciplined, suspended, traded, and ultimately cut players under Tomlin.

From one article I read the Steelers are more a discipline locker room under Tomlin then they were under Cowher.

The Steelers need better players on defense more than they need this over bearing discipline that people seem to believe is the answer. It may not even matter if they get better players on defense. That's because any offense in the league can produce points on any given Sunday. That goes back to my belief that every team in the NFL has talent.

 

I am ok with that. I suspect the ownership is ok with that too. I can accept that this team will have success and failures. They won't win the Superbowl every year.

Would you rather have a team that sucks from year to year and possibly win a Superbowl out of the blue or would you rather have a team that competes from year to year and has a chance win the Superbowl every year? I will take the team that competes and is in the hunt from year to year. The team that sucks from year to year will really give people something to complain about.

 

I hope Tomlin proves me wrong, I really do. But until he takes HIS team to the Super Bowl I firmly believe that the last Super Bowl teams the Steelers fielded had more to do with the solid veteran leadership in the locker room than anything Tomlin did. Not saying he had nothing to do with it, but I believe they could have brought in (insert coach here) and he could have managed that team to the Super Bowl. We hear about quarterbacks being game managers, I believe Tomlin was more of a team manager back then than a head coach who was in the trenches developing winning strategies to put the team over the top. I want very much to believe in Tomlin and would be more than happy to be wrong about him, but until he delivers another Super Bowl championship there will always be doubters. He's taking more flack this off-season than any off-season I can remember. And he's taking flack from not only the talking heads in the media who may or may not be credible, but he's also taking flack from former players who should be well-respected in Steeler circles. Does that not concern you at all? Do you believe all of the criticisms of Tomlin are totally unjustified? I understand that some may go overboard with their criticism, but some seem to take a "see no evil, hear no evil" approach in their defense of Mike Tomlin. I don't get it.

 

No he proved he could do it when his team was full of veteran leaders and stars, who led to the team and MT didn't really need to. Since the leaders have retired, he no longer has what it takes to advance to the SB.

 

Every team has talent but few and far between have franchise QBs and we have one of those. The league clearly is QB driven and Defenses aren't really allowed to play D.....basically Phillys D made one play the whole game. Ours didn't make one yet we keep our DC and all our defensive position coaches. Add in the report Tomlin took over a major role in the defense and all the other nonsense that took place and you can't help but being at least a little miffed...

 

It doesn't matter who coaches this team unless they get some more talent on defense, they need a few playmakers. Fans always talk about how much talent is on this team, the majority of it is on offense it's a flawed roster.

 

yeah no doubt, I'm just spoiled lol. not all teams will be a dynasty.

Steelers were a dynasty in the 70's and 2000's. 2005 sb, 2008 sb, 2010 appearance. 2010-2017 nothing yet lol lets hope for 1 before 2020

 

Don't disagree that we need to make some changes on defense. But do you realize that we had nine 1st round draft picks and three 2nd round draft picks starting on this defense? We've loaded up with pretty good talent and invested alot of time, money and resources in these players. At some point, you've got to start looking at scouting and coaching don't you? Are we drafting the right players? Are we coaching them up to the next level once we have them in the house? Where is the breakdown occurring? We need to hold some positional coaches accountable at the very least. And we need to take a good, long look at our scouting department. Our defense is soft right now. Too many big plays allowed and not enough big plays of their own. Something needs to change this off-season if we expect to get through that window before it closes.

 

We've got to get back next year! Why? So we can continue lay claim that we are the only team to play in a Super Bowl in every decade since the 70s. We've been in at least one Super Bowl in the 70s, 80s (79 season but the Super Bowl was played in 1980), 90s, 2000s.

 

Was reading the Bouchette chat transcript and came across this question, which I thought was very clever: "Did Pederson's fearlessness in the SB indicate that Coach T. indeed lives in his fears?"

Steelers had 4th and 1 on their 40, up 5 with 3 minutes to go and punted. JJ should have never happened.