Is our D still too complicated?

In the Lebeau days, the story was his defense was so complicated that it took several years for a rookie to grasp it. Butler is his pupil. We have lots of young guys or guys new to the system. Is Butler still running essentially the same thing, and guys just can’t implement it? Would that explain all the wide open receivers, missed assignments, and pursuing the play after the fact that seem to plague the defense? Is it more of an “oops, I was supposed to be over there”, or “I was supposed to cover that guy”, than physical talent? That problem goes to coaching, as you have to know what your players can do, both physically and mentally.

I hope we get some new blood on defense, both players and coaches.

 

Defense may have been fine if not for the loss of Ryan Shazier. Essentially the loss of Shazier ended the Steelers SB hopes. If they dont find a middle inside LB the equivalent of Shazier I fear the same issues to conclude this year will be the same come the entirety of next year.

 

I think it's more than losing Shazier. The defense was leaking oil with Shazier, with the miscommunication, tackling and not generating a pass rush with 4 DL.

Remember this defense let Huntley, TJ Yates, Kizer (2), Brissett and Bortles look like Hall of Famers. And other defenses pretty much shut them down or made them look like bottom feeder quarterbacks.

Too many times, even late in the season, we had people blowing coverages. Even in the Jags game, the swing pass to Yeldon was inexcusable. Not one player over there to cover it.

 

This^^^^^^ !!!! 18 weeks of "miscommunication", I'm tired of hearing that word from those guys. If it truly is miscommunication then why was it never fixed? I also know some here will dislike this but it is how I'm seeing things.

I see more miscommunication going on with Artie Burns than anyone else, after that it is Sean Davis, it makes me wonder if they aren't smart enough to grasp the scheme or if there is another issue. I'm guessing Burns is looking to jump routes looking for the big play, the problem is his instinct is completely wrong and most of the blown coverages are on him.

Davis I think is a different situation, he will come up in run support and look good or he will be in the right place and make a play sometimes. His issue seems to be a lack of football I.Q., he makes bad reads on a consistent basis, how many times on big plays have we witnessed that shows 1 receiver all by himself and Mitchell and Davis on the opposite side of the field going to pick up the same receiver?

I can see that happen a few times a season but it happens at least once every game, and a lot of times it happens multiple times a game like the Green Bay game. Hundlley was averaging like 164 yards a game and throws for almost 300 with multiple TD passes and yet at his home field he didn't throw for a single TD even against some lousy teams but against the Steelers D he looked like an all pro.

So in my eyes it isn't the scheme being too hard for guys, it is just a simple fact we don't have a lot of talent on the defensive side of the ball. There is a real lack of depth on the D-line, that is why Heyward plays so many snaps, in fact both him and Tuitt played too many snaps per game last season and we all saw what happened when Tuitt got injured.

The LBers are average, TJ Watt is the exception. Moats is serviceable as a breather and Williams is very good when he has a dominant player on the field with him. He is a good tackler most of the time and does well to get off blocks but he isn't athletic enough to react to directional changes or improvise when needed.

The secondary is bad, no need to sugar coat. We need not 1 but 2 safeties, Haden, past his prime, is better than anyone else we know of on the roster and we haven't seen enough of Sutton to grade him. This is where Colbert need help, Burns was a reach, a lot of experts had him as a late 2nd to 3rd round pick and it was almost unanimous in draft evaluation that he was a reach for the Steelers and I think we are seeing that, next year we will know if he will be good or if he will be another wasted 1st round pick.

The biggest problem for the Steelers is they think a Coty Sensabaugh or a Ross Cockrell or Brice McCain or some other player taken off of a scrap heap is going to help. They are right in not paying too much for a veteran FA but think of how many of those 50+ yard plays don't happen if they would have had Weddle at safety? He wanted a lot for his age but in a year where the schedule and the offense was in place, a guy like that could have really helped but instead we hope from week to week that guys will get it and be better.

 

I'm gonna give Haden a chance cause he did miss a few games for injury, got back in there. I just hope he can stay healthy and see if he can still play with the best of them with a full season under him.

 

They did not just lose shazier, they lost the fastest middle linebacker ever to play football. When shazier is out there our defense actually looks fast cause of his blazing speed but look at everyone else. We could not overcome it at all. The funny thing is both gerry dulac and bouchette were asked which defensive player was most valuable and they both said we could not lose heyward. What the hell are they smoking? Heyward got manhandled sunday. It is not complicated, shazier makes up for everbody else that sucks. When hes gone theres alot of open space and everybody else runs around like a chicken with his head cut off

 

This. Players are lost over the season. Yes it was one of the All Star players but to make the excuse for the other 10? Common. Like said even with Ryan this defense regressed. To make the excuse for the other players and coaches that the defense went down the drain because of his injury is just mindless. This lies at the feet of Butler. And his staff.

 

The major problem with this defense was the lack of communication on the field, players out of position to often and everyone is just free lancing out there, and that is the whole defensive coaching staffs fault and Butler inparticular lets it happen so he gets the Blame....

 

Complicated?? Looks more like Football IQ is a bit light in the backfield.

 

Defense is Defense !
Find the ball and attack!

These guys have been playing all their lives.

Even if you don’t have the correct play called, Attack!

 

Well it is certainly not complicated for the opposing offense! Heck...just get our defense in a 3rd and long situation at it is practically an automatic first down for the other team. For Brady, he can name that tune in four pass plays and he is on our goal line.

 

The defense is not too complex the reality is that the players that are being used lack the fundamental understanding of what is expected of them in any given formation and aren't able to diagnose the plays being run against them.

Here is a few examples from key groups throughout the course of several games starting with Sunday's game.

Vs Jacksonville 4th quarter. The Jags have a critical 3rd and long. Spence and VW drop into zone coverage at the snap of the ball putting themselves in good position if TE's run seam routes from both sides, the HB runs an arrow route or if someone runs a slant towards theIR respective zones. Problem is no one is running those routes but the fail to identify that and simply sit in their zone meanwhile the slot receiver runs a shallow crossing route and sits down in the soft spot between their two zones with neither one making a move to cover him until he has the ball and is over the first down marker. If there isn't a man in your zone per say you don't sit there and let a guy run free 5 ft in front of you. Get on him.

Same thing on the Yeldon wheel route. If you are in zone and you havent got anyone to cover and see the RB heading for the sideline get you butt over to him, that's your man.

Week 17 vs Browns. The wonderful play of our safeties. Mitchell is the leader on the secondary but he can't do play assessment for biggest risk. The long completion to Josh Gordon was from a single wr run heavy formation. Mitchell should realize the lber and Davis are in good position to support stopping the run or PA to TE'S or the RB. His help isn't needed, the bigger threat is Gordon singled up on Haden. He is late seeing it and late helping because he is worried about run support.

Next long TD both Davis and Mitchell fail to see Watt lined up on the slot receiver is the biggest threat. Davis should move closer to the middle of the field but close to the formation to support Watt or still take an angle to help Burns. He doesn't see it nor does Mitchell who should have saw it to and moved him.

Vs the Patriots. Brady's long completion to Gronkowski. On the DL Hargrave has single man with the RG and Tuitt is driving the RT wide, Heyward draws the dbl team from the center who never even look Hargraves way and the LG and still begins to collapse the left side with Watt going wide on the LT and pushing him towards the pocket. Hargrave should know Brady hates pressure in his face and go inside the RG and forcing him away from the RT and Tuitt. Instead he goes outside and gets pushed into the RT and limits Tuitt to continuing to push outside and work around towards Brady. So instead of keeping pressure in his face and limiting his left and right movement, Brady has a clear unobstructed view simply by stepping right avoiding pressure on the left and completes the throw to Gronk and Davis is made the goat.

Burns anytime he was in man coverage but worried about run support. Why are you worried about run support? If you man is run blocking then worry about it, if he runs 30 yards down field don't be caught looking into the backfield cover your man and let the others do their job.

Run support. The ILB need to stop jumping the first gap they see until the back commits. DL don't break the line unless you are sure you can get the RB down disrupt his route and let someone clean him up otherwise you are just opening holes for cut backs.

These are just a few examples of the breakdowns of fundamentals that could be addressed and fixed if they test these guys and make sure they know what's expected.

 

I don't know how our guys can just stand around and let the receivers stand in the open. What happen to covering?

 

See my above post. They simply don't know what's expected. They think if they leave their zone it's bad but if they were to check really quick they will see no one is near it so it's better to cover the guy who is wide open then to stay in your zone looking foolish.

 

As with most in life, its a combination of things imo. Maybe too complicated plus a lack of coaching the details to the players, plus player study. Players have to execute, yes, but how can they when they are stuck in neutral pre-snap. I think there is a discord in how the information is being coached and/or relayed to the players, especially in the secondary as it seems that is where most of the glaring breakdowns occur.

Players have to study and prep with game film, so it would be interesting to know how much time each guy spends on film. You saw what Cam Sutton did as a rookie, injured for most of it no less, but he was prepared when he came back. But his film study was reported many times as being outstanding.

 

Complication could be part of it but there is a talent problem. The inside LB'ers without Shazier are abysmal and the safeties are sub par as well. Other than Cam, what Steeler defender can even be considered all-pro material?

 

Not for other teams.

 

Coaching, coaching, coaching. I feel like there's an attitude from the D coaches of "You made it to the Pros, we don't need to show you how to do anything." Which could explain the lack of communication and botched coverages. And don't even get me started on tackling fundamentals.

 

How many times did we hear "Don't worry we'll fix it?" They still haven't fixed last year's mistakes.

 

I think once Shazier went down it changed what VW was allowed to do. Didn't see VW being allowed to blitz up the middle maybe he was being held back to help in coverage.
I expected much more out of Tuitt this year he looked fantastic towards the end of last year, not sure if he is hurt but he didn't produce.

The Jags game was painful to watch the defensive secondary, even if we stopped the run and forced them into 3rd and 5 or 6 the corners would be 12 yds deep allowing a simple in cut that Bortles had no problem completing.

I agree Lake should be gone the secondary is not progressing and confusion and missed assignments this late in the season is embarrassing.

At least with Butler he didn't nail the young guys to the bench for 2 1/2 years then have them play well for 1 then leave.

 

Great breakdown of the issues. Seems from this more a mental/intelligence issue than a physical issue. I hope the smarts can improve.

 

Ywp, its definitely the schemes and poor defensive coaching

 

You think the LBs are average? I think they are below. With Shazier gone they are at the bottom of the barrel.
Williams, Makevich, Spence and Fort
Watt, Moats, Chick and Dupree
The worst group of LBs in Steelers history. Out of those eight, two are legitimate starters.

 

Well let’s see 11 starters

Hayward very good year
Haden solid year
Vince Williams solid year
Hilton solid Nickel
TJ Watt good year for a rookie

Tuitt sucked, hope he was hurt
Hargrave terrible
Mitchell worst saftey in football
Sean Davis regressed
Artie Burns regressed
Bud Dupree invisible Jarvis 2.0
Sean Spence laughable


Yeah I’d say we have a lot of holes to fill in 1 year!