Haley's passing to RB on Offense percentage

Check out this article about Todd Haley likes using running backs in the passing game. The article has stats on the suject showing that Haley's percentage of passes to the running back in his offense is clearly over the league average as oppose to Bruce Arians average which was way below the league average during his time as the Steelers OC. It shows that BA had no clue about even using the RB's in the passing game. BA's game was the long ball, "BA BALL", which is why he is no longer here!

Another telling stat is that in Haley's offense the QB got sacked only 5.60% of the time while in Arians offense the QB got sacked 8.50% of the time. The league average at that time was 6.1% of the time. Again, Haley's average was under the league average where BA's was over the league average. How could Tomlin be so blind to these facts for so long? If these stats were available, how come he couldn't look at them and say we need to do better or else? Ben took a beating during BA's time as OC, READ THE ARTICLE!!!

IMHO, Haleay was annd is a better OC then Arians. The Steelers offense will be much better under Haley and the Colts offense will be worst under Arians, especially with a rookie QB. Lets just say good ridence Bruce Arians!!

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/05/to ... sing-game/

 

I've been saying it since we drafted Mendy, the guy is a beast in the open field so we need to get him out into the open field. No better way to do that than to throw the ball to him. Mendy could be as good as Forte if we use him right. Unfortunately we may never know now due to his injury, but if he comes back just as strong and if we re-sign him, I expect him to have top 5 numbers under Haley. A lot of people don't like Mendy, but the guy is super talented, we just didn't use him right. Lesean McCoy would also be average if he was just told to pound the ball up the gut every play.

 

Look at the stats 2007 - 2010 (we will throw out 2011 because of the meltdown in KC and injury to Cassel, although we had a lot of injuries too and the Steelers "O" was much better than KC's in 2011.)
2007 - Arizona and Pittsburgh had very similar stats for total yards and points per game (Arizona 0.6 points more) - slight advantage Haley
2008 - Arizona substantially better than Pittsburgh (50 yards and 5 points more per game) - Haley
2009 - Pittsburgh substantially better than KC (70 yards and 4.6 points more per game) - Arians
2010 - KC and Pittsburgh very similar stats (Pittsburgh 0.5 points more) - slight advantage Arians
I just don't see where a lot of people conclude that Haley has a much better track record for offensive performance. I think it is more about BA hating than it is about Haley love. If I had added the 2011 year to the list above, Arians would have had a better offensive track record over the past 5 years than Haley. There was one amazing year in Arizona, but I think we all know that had more to do with Kurt Warner than it did the coaching staff.

 

The OC doesn't decide when to throw to the RB unless it's a screen pass. It's the QB's job to get the ball into the hands of the play makers. IMO, Steelers haven't been good at executing screens to the RB's since 2005. I believe that had more to do with the decline and loss of players on the Oline. They made up for the inability to execute RB screens by implementing WR screens. WR screens seemed to have success under BA.

In regard to the run game, not sure why people continue to scream that Haley is going to be a huge upgrade over BA. BA run offenses generally out perform Haley's run offenses. Haley didn't get his HC job based on the performance of the Cards run game, that's for sure.

People need to be very careful anointing Haley as a huge upgrade over BA. At the end of the day, offensive success is going to boil down to how Ben performs on the field. Coaches don't usually make that much of a difference unless their players are good enough. The question remains is will people hold Ben accountable for his inconsistent play or will they place the focus on Haley or others?

 

I would argue that we have far more talent than the other teams you mentioned.

 

I am sorry to say this, but this statement is just wrong in its face. The OC determines how the offense will run. BA didn't want Ben to dump the ball off, he wanted him to run around and look for the "big play". That led to an inconsistent performance. One game he would throw for 350 yards, the next 150. New Orleans didn't throw the ball to the RB's more than 4x what we did because Brees thought it was a better idea.

 

We can crunch numbers all we want but it doesn't change the fact that our 100 million dollar QB was getting killed under BA's piss poor play calling. There were no designed plays to get WR's open and the ball out of Bens hands quickly, and going five wideouts empty set on third and 1 was completely unacceptable.

I will not miss BA at all!!!!

 

We won't know a true comparison between the two until Haley has run the offense for our unit. But I do believe Haley will be much better. Stats seem to show he runs a more balanced offense and utilizes the weapons he has available to him.

 

I would agree we have more talent, but when you take in consideration the O-line we were using, not as much of an advantage as first appears. My only point in comparing offensive performance is that I think people are going overboard with Haley. When you look at the stats, it just doesn't show that he is that much better than what we had. I hope he is, but I don't see where his results show that.

 

Wrong? There is a difference between how the offense will run and where the QB decides to go with the football. QB's are not robots. QB's have a lot of autonomy determining where the football should go after the play starts. That autonomy extends to post huddle. I've heard that 2 or 3 plays can be called in a huddle. QB can determine if the play is changed at the line based on the defense. It's a "check with me" concept. The OC provides the QB several options on a given play. The QB decides where to go with the football based on the defense the he reads after the play starts. If BA didn't want Ben to dump the ball off, he would not had provided him with short options. Yes, there were short options and dump offs available in many of the plays that were called. I am certain I am not the only fan that watched Ben ignore/didn't notice an open short option for a covered option deeper down field. You can blame whoever you want for Ben's inconsistent performances. I choose to blame the person most responsible for his inconsistent performances, Ben himself.

Brees is a more complete QB then Ben. Brees is more intelligent on the field. Who made the final decision to throw the ball to the RBs in the Saints offense?

 

i gotta agree with you 43. our backs and TE's were open alot and ben chooses not to throw it to them. not BA's fault. his offense put them where they were suppose to be.

 

Totally.

 

It is the job of the OC to practice throwing to the shorter guys....It is his job to force the QB to look at the underneath stuff,it is his job to teach the QB how much it will help the whole scheme work if you use the checkdowns.....


Haley will do this,,,BA did not.....BA was proud that he practiced the scramble drill....Haley will be proud to keep Ben clean and open up the field by forcing Teams to defend all the elgible Receivers and to defend the entire field....As a result the big play will be open more often,we will continue drives at a higher rate,and we will score the ball a lot more effecively......

Our new O will have balance and will not give the play away with the package,I expect Haley to use running sets that have pass options and passing sets that have running options....Key word Balance.....As stated 3rd. and 1 with 5 WR'S is as far from Balance as you can get and yet we did that a lot under BA.....IMO the new yardage for empty sets will probably be over 5 yards ,because Haley will have a lot of plays that have a great chance of picking that yardage up from both directions....

 

I agree. Not entirely - Ben is a huge factor, of course, but it's a team game; and perhaps Haley has a more diverse playback in terms of utilising a range of offensive weapons. Maybe we rotate the RB/TE/WRs a bit more. Who knows.

But that's just the thing that drives me mad about all this "Haley will do this" "Haley will do that" stuff. He hasn't done anything yet. Let's re-open this debate in like Week 4 or something.

 

Man please, yes it has a lot to do with BA hating. Most of Steeler Nation hated the guy but, if you read the article the two most telling things was that Haley throw more to his running backs then Arians, and his QB got sacked less they Arians QB. Now you know for yourself that Ben took a bad beating during Arians time to the tune of over 300 sacks, thats terrible. I bet he doesn't get sacked that much under Haley. The Steelers did the right thing buy upgrading the O-Line. Arians would have been trying to draft more TE's in the early rounds. So don't give me that stuff about advantage Arians. Maybe you should become a Colt fan with Arians and Luck, see how that goes.

Also, Arians had better players and QB during his time then Haley. Arians had much more talent to work with then Haley and did worst then Haley, not to mention a better defense every year. So give me a break.

As KEVDUDE would say, "FIRE BRUCE ARIANS IMMEDIATELY"

 

Man please, here we go again. Can't you see? As I said. the two glaring differences was that Haley throw more to his running backs then BA did, and most importantly, Haley's QB got sacked way less then Arians QB. Must I point out how bad Ben got beat up under Arians! It was bad to the tune of over 300 sacks during Arians time. And don't talk about the running game under Arians because he had no glue. Oue running game sucked under Arians Example (See Browns game at Heinz, Mendenhall running the ball four straight times up the middle on the goal line and not getting in.)

At the end of the day, Ben will be better under the Haley offense becase he will be sacked less, and he will get the ball out fast to the RB's, and their will be no more Arians "BUBBLE SCREEN"!

"COME ON MAN"

 

And yes, you are right. BA always wanted the long ball. Thats why people called it school yard ball and I dubbed it "BA BALL"! I guess it will be all out "BA BALL" in Indianapolis and Luck.

 

well until i see it , i'm holding my comments about haley. BA won a SB , so he already has done more then haley. we also started seeing sacks go up with ben under cowher. the line started declining, and ben started qb'ing. that was like a two headed monster for sacks. they should be down with haley, we've upgraded the line to possibly one of the best in the NFL within a year or two. we also have a much better line coach now. he has had sacks drop , not by much but some since he's been here, but it's an improvement.

haley actually has alot of offensive weapons to work with now, he better be successful. this offense is stacked right now for him. his true test will be raising the scoring in the redzone. this is critical for success. if you get the ball down there, we need 7's. not fancy formations. this should be where haley shines above BA.

 

The stats don't show that Haley did any better than Arians, as I showed above. And a bad defense usually helps your offense statistically, because you are still trying to score points at the end of the game instead of running out the clock. This is all about BA hating, which is fine. I think it was time to make the change but I don't see where Haley is some offensive guru that deserves the accolades people are giving him. I will wait and see, but I won't hesitate to pull the trigger on a FTHI thread if we don't come out firing on all cylinders.

 

You said: "I don't see where Haley is some offensive guru". AND "I won't hesitate to pull the trigger on a FTHI thread if we don't come out firing on all cylinders."

Now that's a cantradiction. BA had a long tenure to earn or lose the fan bases good will. Give Haley a proper amount of time to right the ship... Please. :swordsman:

 

Maybe, but a full year would be a honest amount of time. But, even some of us Ariens dislikers (or whatever you want to call us) gave it a short rest after the SB win. How much he called on that last drive was in question. It didn't take long to get that train going again though...

 

You're right 100%. Mendy was the best receiving RB in all of college when we drafted him.. How many times did we use him like that? I don't remember any plays where we threw him the ball.

 

I think stats can be misleading for sure. BA put up decent numbers when talking about total yards but take a look at his redzone numbers. And his situational play calling was horrendous. I also have to agree with Shaner82 and ROBLISBERGER as well. We had plenty of weapons under BA......he just never knew how to use them to their full (or even half in some cases) potential.

And those that blame Ben have to also remember that it was BA that allowed Ben to run his own show. BA created that environment. I just don't see Haley allowing that to continue.If our offense blows after two seasons I believe there will be no one other than Haley to blame since I believe he'll take this offense under his wings and eventually make it his own. In other words, I believe he'll run a much tighter ship and the buck should stop at him.

And to keep with the original theme of the thread, yes I hope we use our RB's more in the passing game. I suspect (hope) we'll use all of our weapons more efficiently under Haley. Can it be worse than before???