My Final 53

You do realize that DHB's speed isnt what it used to be and even when it was, it was only like .1 to .2 seconds faster over 40 yards. I highly doubt his speed at his age allows him to be 2-5 yards closer to the returner than any other gunner we would put out there. I agree he has value there, but if thats all his value, well then I say its not enough to keep over a more talented WR with more upside and growth potential.

 

All reports stat that DHB still has world class speed . His tape this preseason also shows that . He has also been beating guys deep in the preseason ,but the balls have been under thrown.One huge key people fail to look at is the space he does create for others when he is on the field.

DHB is also the best blocking WR on the Team ,this is why he doesn't get any WR screens because others can't block for him like he does for them.If you think e still can't run as fast look at that end around last year when he ran a guy down and then ran away from everyone else on the Defense .

DHB can make big plays if used correctly ,when he is on the field he needs more runs,more screens and more Deep balls . I don't expect him to be on the field a lot if all the other guys are healthy, but he is still as much of a weapon at the spot than any of the other #5 WR'S would be.

I will also add he draws a bunch of pi's compared to the snaps and routes he runs , not a stat those stat sites keep up with , but it gives the O a new set of downs .

 

Your disdain for Coates surpasses mind for Golden.

First 5 games we went 4-1. Without Bryant Coates took off the top in coverage. He lead the NFL with an 22 yd / catch avg.
He had a long in each game... In order ... Of 42yds 1st game, 53 2nd game, 41 3rd, 47 4th and a 72 yarder in the 5 game with 2 TDs...

We then lost 4 games straight in a row with Coates injured where he caught just one pass for 4 yds in all four games.

Redzone they where rushing DWill and targeting James, AB Grimble.

Remember he had a knee issue to start camp so they were slow and cautious with him which also influences how he "looked" in preseason .....

Again, if he can catch it cleanly and his knee is completely healed he is worth keeping this year on the 53 in a prove it season!!!!

Cajun

 

I'd be very surprised if Allen doesn't make the team and I'm not sure a fifth-round pick makes it to the practice squad. The problem was the injury to Sutton. I think the hope was he could take Gay's role, but I doubt he will be ready for that by Week 1.

Obviously, the trade for McDonald will change things at tight end. Maybe they keep four, but that still means cutting Johnson or McGee and hope they can sneak McGee onto the practice squad.

I get the love for DHB, but Coates did play well on special teams last season in a similar role when DHB was out and he presents more upside at receiver.

 

Brian Allen has no chance to make the 53-man roster, and he easily makes it to the practice squad. Sutton will starting in place of Ross Cockrell by Week 4. Gay will be supplanted by Hilton sooner rather than later. Gay's role will be the dime corner / safety / linebacker whatever you want to call it. How much they use the dime, and how long Gay stays in that role remains to be seen.

 

Yep that's the one . He also had a long one from Ben early in the year and when Ben let the ball go both coverage guys had a step or 2 on him when it came down he was behind both of them . I am sure every DC and every DB in the NFL have mad respect for his speed when they watch the tape.

 

I agree he is still fast, but I disagree he is 5 yards faster over 40 yards then the next guy who would take his place. Also he is notorious for having bad hands. If he had great hands, he never would have been let go in the first place from the team that drafted him...I am saying we can be just as good on special teams with someone else, we may lose a little bit in blocking from a WR spot but that can be coached up and well the hands factor, that cant be coached, some guys are just better receivers. I think we are better off with Coates overall than we are with DHB, Coates is a more physical receiver and we need that. Imagine the physical WR's this team would have with Bryant, Coates and JuJu...with AB wreaking havoc all over the field, it would be hard to stop!!

 

I agree about Coates adding more as a WR in the long run and for the record I want to keep them both . To me it's not a 1 or the other.I say we keep the blocking of DHB and the ST'S play and give Coates another season to see if he can progress and make the decision next season with more information.

IMO that is what the Steelers will do . Plus don't forget that players and Coaches say that DHB is the guy WR'S go to for advice not AB.Haley said DHB knows what each WR spot is supposed to do on every play it's like having another Coach,This has to be considered with a lot of weight given to it as well.

 

I don't have a disdain for Coates, I simply have a logical approach to roster construction that takes in to account roles, package/formation/usage, roster depth, and cap/long term outlook.

1. Coates only offensive role is filling Bryant's shoes.
2. Coates depth role must include special teams. DHB is significantly better, in like a Ben vs Bart Houston kind of way.
3. We have very good young depth players who make more long term sense to keep an extra body than WR (Where we have stability over the years to come).

Do I want to downgrade S/T significantly to keep a backup to Martavis Bryant's snaps?
Or would I prefer to keep a long term replacement for Hubbard after this year? (Feiler)
Or would I prefer to keep a long term replacement for DJ after this year? (McGee)
Or would I prefer to keep a developmental CB, due to our lack of proven talent? (Allen)
Or would I prefer to keep an additional RB (Watson)
Or would I prefer to keep an extra LBer for S/T (Johnson)

All of these provide more value to today's roster and the long term outlook....
Yes, thanks for highlighting the 5 splash plays....

 

You're welcome..... But you forgot the 4-1 record to start the season then the 4 Straigjt loses when Coates went down and DHB could NOT fill his shoes ..... Coincidence ? Maybe some. But fact is his 5 splash plays as you call it is more than anyone else has even come close to. It had an impact and when gone it had a negative impact.

Coates is also a value on ST, don't dismiss that .

Coates has more value than Allen, McGee or even Johnson.

Cajun

 

I ignored that to give you an out, but clearly you want to associate our team's winning with Sammie Coates. I will never let you live that down

Coates sucks as a gunner and as a returner. He has no value on special teams.

 

Doesn't matter if your fast if you can't catch the football. You have to be a reliable pass catcher that DHB and Coates, Hamilton
are not. You can beat your man all day, if you can't catch it does us no good.Package
one or two of these guys along with Cockrell and get us a quality safety. Now we are talking.

 

I think the opposite is true:
Do I want to downgrade S/T significantly to keep a backup to Martavis Bryant's snaps? No, we cut DHB and keep Coates
Or would I prefer to keep a long term replacement for Hubbard after this year? (Feiler) If we cut DHB, we keep Feiler.
Or would I prefer to keep a long term replacement for DJ after this year? (McGee) In my opinion Jesse James is the weak link at TE
Or would I prefer to keep a developmental CB, due to our lack of proven talent? (Allen) You have to keep Allen,he will be snatched from the PS
Or would I prefer to keep an additional RB (Watson) Touissant has to go, Watson outperformed on all levels
Or would I prefer to keep an extra LBer for S/T (Johnson) Linebacker is deep in that we cant keep all of them, there will be tough cuts here.

 

coates had 8 tackles last year. DHB 4. coates averaged 25 yards per kick return. DHB 0. coates 21 rec. 435 yards with a long of 72. 20.7 yd/ per catch average. DHB 6 catches for 114 yards a long of 44. averaged 19 yds./per. both had 2 TD's.

 

feiler can't play center. that's a biggy for him replacing hubbard.

 

Here would be my 53:

QB (3): Ben, Landry, Dobbs

RB (3): Bell, Conner, Watson
- I would use a TE as my FB, no need to carry Nix IMO

WR (6): Brown, Bryant, Rogers, JuJu, Coates, ( Ayers or Hamilton )

TE (4): James or Johnson, Grimble, McGee, ( possibly Mcdonald )
- McDonald is a question mark, lets see what he brings tonight.
- Its either James or Johnson if we keep McDonald. , James has to become more physical with the catch and secure. Plus he is slow and goes down too easy for a man his size. He has no drive or power.
- Grimble has potential to be a nightmare for deep middle or crossing patterns for linebackers to hang with.

OL (9): Al, Foster, Pouncey, Decastro, Gilbert, Hawkins, Hubbard, Finney, Feiler

(25)

DL (6): Heyward, Hargrave, Tuitt, Alualu, Walton, Maxey

ILB (5): Shazier, Williams, Matakevich, Fort, Johnson

OLB (5): Dupree, Watt, Harrison, Chickillo, Moats

CB (5): Burns, Haden, Sutton, Hilton, Allen

S (4): Mitchell, Davis, Dangerfield, Webb

(25 )

Special teams

LS - Holba
K - Boswell
P- Berry

( 3 )

 

Not that I agree with the use of these stats to make the case, but if you really want to make the case via yards, tds, and st tackles... you should do it on a per snap basis...

DHB 233 snaps / 114 yards / 2TDs = 0.62 yards per snap / .0085 TDs per Snap
Coates 313 snaps / 435 yards / 2 TDs = 0.72 yards per snap / .0063 TDs per Snap

DHB 114 snaps / 4 tackles = .035 ST Tackles per snap
Coates 191 snaps / 7 tackles = .036 ST Tackles per snap

DHB value doesn't come from special teams tackles, it comes from being able to beat jammers and get down field to accomplish 1 of 3 things:
1. force fair catches
2. direct the returner in to the coverage (some else makes the tackle)
3. make the tackle

In DHBs 10 games, Berry averaged:
46.8 yards per punt
57 yard long punt average per week

In the 6 games DHB missed, Berry averaged:
44.2 yards per punt
50 yard long punt average per week

In the first 8 weeks, we faced some of the best punt returners in the game...

Week 1 - Crowder - 3 punts, 2 No Returns, 5.7 Net PR average
Week 2 - Pacman - 8 punts, 5 No Returns, 2.4 Net PR average
Week 3 - Sproles - 3 punts, 1 No Return, 5.3 Net PR average
Week 4 - Hill - 5 punts, 3 No Returns, 4.0 Net PR average
Week 5 - No Name - 3 punts, 3 No Returns, 0.0 Net PR average
Week 6 - Landry - 5 punts, 4 No Returns, 2.2 Net PR average
Week 7 - Edelman - 4 punts, 1 No Returns, 4.3 Net PR average
Week 8 - Hester - 9 punts, 6 No Returns, 1.7 Net PR average

Then DHB got injured, and we see how they had to dial back Berry's leg a bit to compensate for what they lost in coverage.

 

QB - Ben, Jones, Dobbs
Pretty self explanatory

RB - Bell, Conner, Davis, Nix
I took Davis over Watson. That's the only battle left. Other 3 are locks.

TE - McDonald, James, Johnson
James won't start over McDonald for long idt. James is a lock and they'll probably go Johnson instead of Grimble. Maybe X makes the roster over DJ, but I think they play it safe with the TE3 and stay with the vet. McGee to the PS.

WR - AB, Marty, JJSS, Rogers, Coates, DHB
First 4 are locks imo. Coates, DHB and Ayers are all fighting for that last spot

OL - AV, Foster, Pouncey, DD, Gilbert, Hubbard, Hawkins, Finney
Maybe they only keep 8 and stash the 9th on the PS? Idk.

DL - Tuitt, Hargrave, Heyward, Alualu, Walton, Maxey
I think this is pretty well set imo

ILB - Shazier, Williams, Fort, Dirty Red, Johnson
Again, seems pretty well set. Could go to 4, but PS doesn't have many enticing options so they probably keep 5

OLB - Watt, Dupree, Harrison, Chick, Moats
Pretty self explanatory

CB - Haden, Burns, Gay, Sutton, Hilton, Sensabaugh
This was the toughest one. Hard to cut either Cockrell or Sensabaugh. One needs to go more than likely if they want to keep Hilton around (which I think they do). Would've been nice to keep Allen up here, but our depth would be too raw and have literally zero experience if we cut either Gay or Sensabaugh from this list. Too risky. He goes to PS.

S - Mitchell, Davis, Golden, Dangerfield
Not a pretty group of depth here, but there isn't much competition behind them. Look for an early pick at FS next season. Take it to the bank.

ST - Boz, Holba, Berry

There aren't many surprises here. RB3, TE3, WR5-6, CB5-6 are the only real position battles still up for grabs. They could always subtract a player from one position to add one for another if they liked that player better. Hopefully I didnt forget anyone.

A few quality players head to the PS in Watson, Feiler, McGee, Ayers, and some rookies in Allen and Adams.

 

I agree, Cockrell is the one that should/will be cut.
I like Cockrell, I've defended him. I think he's better than the fan base sees.
BUT
Cockrell is an outside corner only. Sensabaugh can back up ALL CB spots, he can be the primary backup to Haden and Burns, while also being a slot/nickel/dime backup to Gay and Hilton.

Starters: Haden and Burns
Backup to Starters: Sensabaugh
Nickelback: Gay
Backup to NB: Sensabuagh and Hilton
Dimeback: Hilton
Backup to Dime: Sensabaugh

Sensabaugh is also signed for next year at a reasonable #3/4 CB cost, while Cockrell will be an UFA.... and Sensabaugh provides a nice bridge to Hilton or Sutton taking over the nickel spot when Gay ages out (whether that is at some point this year, or in the offseason)

I like Cockrell, but logic dictates he's the cut.

 

to be fair coates was injured too and a few other st'ers. chickillo, grimble, johnson, shamarko at different times too. DHB had 5 the year before and 4 last year and i believe 1 of those tackles was an int. return and not a ST's play. just saying it's not a night and day difference and coates actually doesn't suck on ST's. now hunter i don't know about how he would do on ST's. cobi has done pretty well when used as a gunner this preseason, and is a very good blocker but....

 

It is a night and day difference. It really is.

 

Gonna put Watson ahead of Davis after tonight. Also, I really think they should keep Ayers over either Coates or DHB. They might PS him, but he could potentially get nabbed.