Grading Project Update (1,000th Post!)

I just noticed I had 999 posts, so I wanted to do something of value for this one. Some people have asked about the grading project (I am evaluating every play, every player, for 13 games from 2011 -- there is a thread about it a few pages back), so I thought I'd give a brief update. I've done three games so far: one from the beginning (week 1), the middle (week 9) and the end (wild card). That wasn't my plan, it just worked out that way.

This is only 3 out of 13 games so it by no means is everything, but here are some thoughts so far on some of the more "controversial" guys, as well as some surprises I've noted.

Note: I think I have done a pretty good job remaining impartial. Of course I had feelings about players going into this, but I try very hard not to let those affect my evaluations. I have indeed been surprised by players I bash who turn in good performances, and disappointed in players I support looking bad. However, many of my feelings are turning out to be dead on. But that's to be expected because I see every game more than once anyway and pay close attention (just not usually to this degree). So I hope you don't think I fudged the numbers for any of my guys.

Controversial player report: Ziggy Hood -- I've probably spent more time watching him than anyone else. Diehardsteel is on record as saying Ziggy gets owned and pushed around by the offense on almost every single play that he's in. I called BS on that. I never thought he was as good as Keisel, Hampton, or Smith, and never expect him to be. I just want him to be a reliable starter. Here's the verdict after three (really two) games: he doesn't play right. He often takes himself out of plays, especially when rushing the passer. He seems more interested in "containing" and playing things safe -- waiting for the play to come to him -- than he does pushing through to make plays himself. He runs around guys instead of through them. Both when rushing the passer and when stopping the run, he appears to be staring into the backfield. When rushing the passer, he is watching the QB, seemingly paranoid that the QB might escape the pocket and he has to keep him in, and trying to time his leap to bat the ball down. He simply assumes he won't make it to the QB in time, so he tries to get into a passing lane instead of trying to get a sack. This is terrible. It looks like he's not even trying. Like he's given up before the play starts. And the sad thing is, he's said to be the best pass rusher on the team out of the linemen. He supposedly does extremely well in training camp in one on one drills. In week 9 against Baltimore, I saw him only really try to get to the QB one or two times, and on one of them he beat Birk and got a hurry and a knockdown on Flacco. Someone needs to tell him that it's okay to try your hardest, and if you fail, that's no big deal. You only need to beat the blocker one time out of 30 to have a winning day. I'm not saying he could be a Pro Bowler if he tried harder, but he would be at least an asset to the team on passing downs. He would be what he is supposed to be -- someone you have to double team. Right now he's not, because he's not trying. In the running game, he's much better, but still looks too eager to go where the linemen want him to go: "Oh, you're trying to block me to the right, huh? Well I'm gonna go to the right faster than you, then run all the way around you, then get the ru-- oh, the play's over."

HOWEVER, I want to make clear that he doesn't suck. In fact, he still looks like a capable starter to me (say what you want about him as a draft pick, I still think he was the only real option). Offenses do in fact try to run right at him, and they can't. He doesn't get pushed around physically any more than our other linemen. He holds up well, and he tackles well when he has the chance. He's not doing badly at all, he's just not living up to his own potential by a mile. He needs more/better coaching. I know we have good coaches, so I hope they see what I do. It is clear to me that 100% of his flaws are in his head.

Pleasant Surprises

- Ramon Foster: In two full games graded, he has played very well in both. If he can play this well consistently, he won't even need replaced.

- Hines Ward: This guy was over the hill by midseason? Well back in week 1 he was a legitimate threat as a starter. He looked as good as ever.

- Jason Worilds: He may not be in Harrison's league (no one is), but he is ready to start, if only we had a place for him. I want to sign him to a long-term deal the year before he is needed to start, because he will be in position to demand lots of money once he sees the field full time. The LB legacy will continue with him as he grows.

- James Harrison: Is the best linebacker I've ever seen. Already loved him, but he doesn't just consistently play well, he consistently dominates opponents. Offenses have no answer for him. I knew he was a complete player and strong in the running game, but I didn't know he was this good. He can't be run on.

- Heath Miller: Is the best tight end I've ever seen. Already loved him, but he doesn't just consistently play well, he consistently dominates opponents. Blocks with the power of an offensive lineman, but has better technique and can hold it longer. Regularly finishes blocks by pancaking opponent, no matter who it is.

Disappointments:

- Doug Legursky: Plenty of other guys played like crap (Scott, Gay, Kemo), but so far Legursky has performed farthest below the level I expected. Not just getting outmatched -- he is making mental mistakes all over, and he's supposed to be the smart one. Looks like he can't even pick up a stunt.

 

Keep it coming, Snack. This is good stuff.

 

good stuff snack. there is a reason i think essex ( if he is serious about coming in in shape) will be re-signed and may just give them the resource to let legursky go. legs is due 1.275 mil. this year. all of it could be a cap savings ( no signing bonus to worry about). i believe essex would play and could play for that amout or less with more position versatility. i do believe he could be that swing tackle we may need also. i went to his site and it has some of his tweets on there. he is working out hard this offseason. that's a plus. it tells me he's serious about what he said. i think dougs days may be numbered here.

i read the same thing you are saying on a site that graded our linemen also. it says ramon though not perfect is playing pretty well. so you have my vote of confidence that you are looking at this fairly. not that my vote means much but you are saying the same thing others are about him. that is a good thing for this cap straped team. we won't need two starting guards this year. ramon will cost the exact same as legursky as far as cap and pay. one worth it one not as i see it. good job.

 

Love this! It would make a great TV show. Let's move to the burgh and start this as a one hour show. I have a ton of TV experience!!!

 

A good reading !!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

heath miller is the "best tight end (you've) ever seen?!" really?

really?!

no . . . really?!?!

do you mean 'blocking' tight end? 'cause you didn't really elaborate on anything he brings to the game from a receiving standpoint.

do you mean just within the franchise that he's the best you've ever seen? i'm not getting it.

heath (blame arians, tomlin, ben, god, lee harvey oswald, insert name here) has completely disappeared from this offense. he is not a 'weapon' at all in this offense. and, when he does get his hands on the ball, damn if he doesn't put the ball on the turf at the most inopportune times. he's gotta fumble more (fumbles per touches) than any other tight end in the league. i think he has had a HUGE dropoff in production over the past couple of years. his production seems to be regressing. although, all you really mentioned was his blocking prowess which i'm certainly not going to debate because i'm not going to put that kind of time in to watching and re-watching plays involving heath miller blocking. it's always nice when someone does though so i always appreciate reading this stuff.

i also think ziggy hood had a big drop-off in production between '10 and '11. he stepped up and played a big role in 2010 when aaron smith went down in the miami game. this season, i couldn't even tell you if he was on the roster. the guy had little-to-no impact this season.

james harrison also had a substantial drop-off in production. i'm afraid he's kicked the hornet's (goodell's) nest with his off-season comments and officials are going to let o-linemen hold, grapple, lasso, hogtie, ductape, tase . . . do whatever they want to him and he's not going to draw a flag. he has been rendered ineffective as a pass rusher. i thought his overall game was strong, but i thought his production as an edge rusher this season was pretty much useless.

hines ward "looked as good as ever?" that's even more bewildering than heath being the "greatest tight end (you've) ever seen" comment. he looked better this season as the fourth receiver than his glory years moving the chains and scoring td's?

jason worilds is "ready to start?" for who? for us? umm . . . what are you seeing out of worilds that i'm not seeing? because what i'm seeing, he's nowhere near the caliber of player that harrison or woodley are. in his limited playing time, i don't believe he had any real kind of impact. what did i miss?

i would agree with you on ramon foster being a pleasant surprise, but i disagree on your thought that gay was a "dissapointment." i thought gay was a 'pleasant surprise' this season. he's always been a point of concern and i thought he had a very nice 2010.

just my opinions. i'm not studying game film though - just going off memory - so you've probably got better insight into the player evaluations than i do.

 

AAAAHHh I just wrote a long reply and it got erased!

I basically said that yeah, I knew Foster improved from last year, but still thought he wasn't good enough to be the long term starter. And if he continues to play as well as he did in the TWO games I've studied him, I have no problem keeping him there indefinitely. He and Colon would make a powerful right side of the line...

Also some stuff about Essex... I have no problem with him and wish him the best, but wouldn't take him for a penny over the league minimum. I don't think he can backup OT at this point; he's as bad as Scott out there and we must do better. He is just interior BU material if you ask me. I welcome him back to compete, but we're kidding ourselves if we think we can't find another guy like him for the same money or less. His whole appeal his position versatility, but I don't think he's good enough at 2 of his 5 positions to actually play them in a game. Lots of guys can do the inside 3. Now we just need a real swing OT.

That is a lot of money for Legursky to be making. I agree that depending on who we bring in this offseason, he could be done. Although the coaches do like him a lot...

 

Yeah.

Yeah.

...Yeah.

I'm not measuring production, I'm evaluating player talent. We already know the production numbers, they're over on NFL.com. I don't care if he finished the season with zero catches for zero yards. It wouldn't change a thing.

I'm evaluating all aspects of his game, and you'll be able to see what's what when my stats come out. But yes, of course, in 4 out of 5 plays he's blocking, and that is the best part of his game.

As for his receiving ability, before the "New Tight End" (NTE) came around (first Gates, then the likes of Graham, Finley, Gronkowski, etc.) he was easily a top 5 receiving tight end. When you think about how tight ends were 6-8 years ago, any team would be thrilled to have guy like Heath out there running routes and catching balls. He was one of the very best, even as a rookie. He still is very good, and probably top 10. Unfortunately, in today's Fantasy world, he's considered something like the 25th best tight end -- not best receiving tight end, just tight end, because they forgot what else they do -- in the league. No one cares about the blocking at all, because it's not stats and not points (at least for him). So, I get it, they're saying tight ends don't need to block anymore. At least not any better than a receiver. My only question is, isn't that what makes them a tight end? How is a tight end that doesn't block still a tight end? He's just a large, slow receiver that practices ally-oops with his QB. So yeah, Heath isn't as fast or quick as Aaron Hernandez, and I bet 99% of fans out there would take Hernandez over Heath in a heartbeat without even bothering to look up who Heath is, but Aaron Hernandez doesn't moonlight as a 6th offensive lineman. I would LOVE to see what happened if Hernandez or any of the others went one on one against Suggs for a full game. Let's face it: most of these NTEs don't do half of what a tight end does. I'm not knocking them, I'm knocking what we call them. They changed positions and kept the name. Any one of those guys has more in common with Mike Wallace than Heath Miller, especially when it comes to blocking.

And yeah, I do blame (insert name here) for Heath's lack of fame and statistical success. If he'd been drafted by New England (shudder), he'd have been Rob Gronkowski 7 years ago. He's not as fast, but he bowls people over left and right and nobody even notices. Gronk breaks one tackle and NBC interrupts its regularly scheduled programming... He's consistently had the best hands on the team since being drafted, he's a mismatch against linebackers, he's a good route runner, his real life Madden BTK is probably 98... He has been regularly squandered here, and it's not so much a secret. So in recent years, I put him in the top 10 as a receiver. Going back before that, all the way to the early 1990s when I first started really watching, he would have been an elite receiving tight end in any of those times. And the blocking is miles away. He is the most complete tight end I've ever seen. And I don't always like the word "complete" because a lot of times people use it to mean "all aspects of game are equal, and nothing stands out." People used to say Emmitt Smith was the most complete back in the NFL. That was a complete load. The truth was that there was nothing that stood out about him. He was good at everything, great at nothing, and had an amazing offense so complement him. Barry Sanders, meanwhile, was faster, quicker, as strong or stronger, had far better vision, and had no support. No blocking, no passing game, no defense. Just 9 guys in the box. But because he had something so outstanding about him -- his moves -- that's all anyone noticed. Like a beautiful model who doesn't get credit for being the smartest person in the room, even if she is. The moderately attractive woman in the glasses is more "complete." So I don't want you to think that's what I'm saying about Heath. I'm not saying he's good at everything and great at nothing, I'm saying he has it all.

Well, we'll see. That's what I'm going to determine.

I could not disagree more, and this makes me wonder how much you were paying attention. You're clearly a smart guy and devoted fan, and for all I know in 2012 Harrison will be as useful as a bucket of gruel, but in 2011 he was as good as ever. I'm a "stats are misleading" kind of guy, but I like to look at them and then decide if a guy played better or worse than his stats. In 2011 Harrison had 9 sacks in 11 games. That alone isn't bad. If you assume he'd finish with 13-ish sacks had he played 16 games, that's an improvement over the last two years, in which he finished with 10 and 10.5. What you have to consider is how many times he rushes the QB vs. how many times he drops into coverage. He is not our primary rushing linebacker. That's Woodley. Harrison spends most of his time in coverage... Okay, after looking it up, it might not be "most," but it's close to it. According to Pro Football Focus, in 2010 (the only year I could find) he dropped back into coverage 41.39% of the time. 41.39%. That's forty-one point three nine. And he got 9 sacks in 11 games. Out of the guys who usually get more sacks than him, how many times do you suppose they drop back into coverage? How often is DeMarcus Ware or Terrell Suggs back there? Two out of ten pass plays? Two out of twenty? Maybe even less? They rush all day. Harrison drops back two out of five. And it's always been that way. Meanwhile, he's not a one trick pony like most other pass rushers. He's a beast against the run and excellent in coverage. I'd say he plays better than his stats.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/06/the-top-101-players-of-2010-the-top-20/

Well that's just not what I said at all. I was referring to one game, and I think I said that. The opener against Baltimore. And he was not the fourth receiver. He was getting open, making catches, getting yards, blocking well. Again, not much of a stats guy, but he had 5 catches for 67 yards, some of them for big chunks (some of them on bubble screens). And this is while playing with a QB having arguably the worst game of his entire life. My point was that it's hard to believe any downslide he had late in the year had to do with age, when he was playing well just two months earlier. It has more to do with the players that were behind him being so good, plus injuries. It's not like he is useless when he was taking it to Baltimore, who was trying their best to stop us.

You missed Jason Worilds playing well. But no worries, I got it covered. He will never be half the player Harrison is, but whoever replaces Harrison will be a big step down. Worilds is good enough to start for us because he's a good enough player. I didn't say he was as good as our starters. I think I even said he wasn't. Also, I think he's still getting stronger. He was definitely stronger in 2011 than in 2010. Plus he's learning a new position. I'm impressed with how he's playing now, but by the time he takes over he should be rock solid.

It was Gay's best year, no question. But it was up and down to say the least. Also, I didn't say he was a disappointment, I said Legursky was a disappointment. My exact word about Gay was "crap." But I'm being hard on the guy. He did improve, but keep in mind I've only officially evaluated three games, and he only started in two of those, and one of them was the week 9 Baltimore loss. To give you an idea of how bad it was, he scored worse than Ike Taylor in the Denver game. Obviously the stakes are worse for Taylor, but that does not factor into it so much. It's about play, and we shouldn't dilude ourselves into thinking an improved player is a good player. I will continue to grade him fairly and see what we get. There will be week-by-week breakdowns as well as season totals.

Thanks. I appreciate you can distinguish the difference. I'm seeing the difference between studying and memory myself every time I turn on a game.

 

i understand what you're saying about heath but, if the "NTE" is merely a slow receiver, without heath really being involved in the offense, AT ALL, doesn't that just make him a sixth lineman?

oh, and i kind of skimmed over parts of you discussing the 'grading project.' you're just in the infancy of evaluating the entire season?

with that in mind, it's no wonder you're raving about harrison's play this last season. he was the only guy who showed up in the season opener. he was everywhere. regardless of the stats, i just wasn't feeling it from james this year. and, regarding stats, he got shut out this season in more games than he recorded a sack. 2/3 of his sacks came in just two games. the other 3 sacks came against the seahawks, colts, and rams. again, i'm not paying attention to the stat lines regarding james. i watched every single game, intently. and it seemed like he was rushing the qb quite often and he wasn't getting there very often.

hines is done. a lot of people want to hold on, but he simply looked slower this season, less athletic, and he wasn't hauling in some passes that he hauled in in year's past.

i think worilds looked decent in a few early games, but we didn't hear much from him after that. heck, some guy named chris carter looked pretty good at moments. steve mcclendon did too. i just don't recall much of an impact from worilds. maybe you're right though. maybe with time he'll be a lot better. of course, i thought keyaron fox always played well when called upon and we got rid of him sooo . . . what do i know?

here's my take on gays this season: i'm not attracted to them.

here's my take on gay this season: even when he got beat (like the baltimore game you evaluated), it seemed like he was in great position, the other team just made a play. that happens. both baltimore games and the denver games quickly come to mind (obviously). overall, i'd say i was 'pleasantly surprised' with william gay this season.

looking forward to the culmination of the grading project to get your take on the complete body of work.

 

Hats off to you Snack! :hello: Between studying the game film, writing up your evaluations, and responding to our postings commenting on your evaluations, you have logged many hours and many, many keystrokes. Just wanted to say a big thanks for your diligence and service to us here on the board. And thanks for including evander hood as one of your first subjects. I still believe he was a wasted first round pick and nothing more than a back-up at best, but I'll wait for your final grade before commenting further. Looking forward hearing your thoughts on the rest of the team also. Again, good job and thanks!

 

You're including the team, the coach, the system, the quarterback in your evaluation. When it comes to Heath, I'm just evaulating Heath. My point is that he has all the tools he needs to be a great receiving tight end. It's not his fault if he goes unused. If Wes Welker had stayed in Miami he might be coaching a high school team right now.

I've done week 1, week 9, and the wild card game. I don't think a player is a bad pass rusher just because they don't log a sack. There is more to it than sacks. There is pressure, and who you are going against/how many guys, how often you rush. You say he rushed plenty, I say he rushed less than 60% of pass plays. That is far less than anyone else in the league that is even considered a pass rusher, and he still puts up comparable numbers. I don't think that going a whole game without a sack means you didn't produce or didn't do well. Lots of guys get their sacks in clusters. That's how it goes. That's how it's always been. You say he logged at least one sack in 5 games, and got "shut out" the other 6. I think a sack every other game for a guy who only rushes the passer half as much as a lineman is pretty damn good. And if in two of those games he gets three sacks, well that's really good. I am sincerely astonished that you don't think he rushed the passer well this season. I don't know what your expectations are. A hurry every play? Is he a failure for getting blocked sometimes? He's not a QB who is expected to do his job 60-80% of the time. A few pressures and a sack out of 20 tries is a great game.

Well, I thought he looked fine week 1, and so that's what I commented on.

 

Thanks, I appreciate it, but I'm just making all this up.

IS HE JOKING???

 

you brought up an interesting point about harrison above that reminded me . . . not only do i feel like he wasn't sacking the quarterback, i don't feel like he was getting pressure on the qb either. i just don't think he played at the level, this season, that i expected him to. and it seems like any time i was looking to him to make a big play, it wasn't there. it wasn't even close to being there.

he gets a pass, from me anyway (for what that's worth. ha!) because he did miss games and he did have a bad back, AND i thought he did play well in other aspects of his game. i would just liked to have seen him get more pressure on the qb because, as memory serves, he ws getting manhandled by some linemen this season. perhaps more film study will reveal that.

then again, nobody else is reviewing film to dispute your claims so we're going to have to take your evaluation as gospel : )

 

First off hats off for tryng this. Without coaches tape and knowing the play being called it becomes a daunting task. Here's my take on your observations so far.I too have been re-watching games and see things a little fifferent.

Hood- Pretty much spot on. Really disappointed in him and skeptical about his future. NT is a big NO. DE yes but really needs to be more hungry. As a first rd pick he's replacing a 4th rd pick and it looks the other way around, not good.

Foster and Legs. I'm on record not liking Foster and liking Legs. For the record Legs isn't due 1.275 mil and cutting him would be a cap saving. In fact both are RFA & both will most likely get an orig rd tender meaning they'll each make 1.26mil if signed to that offer.Foster is better in the phone booth and place him between colon and Pouncey he'll be ok. Just don't ask him to pull and lead block, he sucks at this often missing his assignment and/or block.

Legs is needed. He plays well in Pounceys relief with not much dropoff in production. He's been called our strongest OL but he doesn't play like it. When he was on the right side Ngata blew him up. Ngata makes his living doing this but I've seen him bull rushed by others. He really needs to learn how to play with better leverage and the coaches should be able to help him here. He is our best pulling OG including kemo= less penalties. He's also been called our smartest OL. On the rightside he had to keep an eye on a Rookie OT Gilbert and help cover his mistakes. On the left side he a an inept Scott beside him and had to help cover Ben's Blind side. With this and the much publicized miscommunication between him and Pouncey left stunting blitzing ILB an opportunity up the middle. When Max came in the line stabilized because he could do his job freeing Legs and Pouncey up to focus on the middle. With Gilbert moving to LT means Legs will have to once again keep one eye over there ready to help. Teams will hit our Left side with speed rushers outside and stunts up the middle to test us early. Gilbert/Legs/Pouncey must put on tape early they can stop this or its gonna be a long season. Legs is a keeper but needs improving at the point of attack.

Hines is done, too slow now and 4 mill for a 4th WR is silly. Jerricho needs re-signing.

Heath miller- The best TE ever...really?
Great hands but is slow, pedestrian like and doesn't break tackles. I love him but no-way best ever. He's not even the best ever Steeler TE.

Harrison- Again,really, best ever? I agree he's better overall than people think because they focus on his pass rushing. His back surgery set him back and is why his production dropped. In camp he was squatting only 305 ILbs and by early/mid-season was up to 500 Lbs. The beast will return this year.

Worilds- It is okay to compare Worilds & Woodley. They are the same size,both were college DEs converting to 3-4 OLB and both drafted 2nd RD. Worilds is NOT living up to Woodleys track record but we knew when we drafted him he needed time to develop and we had the time to give him. Hopefully this year gave him some experience and insight on where he needs to get to. If he lives up to your projection of never becoming half the player Harrison is we're in trouble and he'll be a wasted pick. I'm holding out hope for him. He had some good games. Anything to keep Timmons off the OLB spot. That experiment failed.

Cajun-

 

yea, i just caught that cajun, legs and foster should be 1.26 mil. instead of 1.275, but what's $15,000 amongst friends? :-D i think alot depends on essex and what they do with him this year. if we draft some guys, i think only one of them stays between legs and essex. they are the only BU centers we have. alot will depend on the draft.

 

Well, at some point we need to let go of Smith's draft status. He was taken in the 4th, but played beyond the expectations of a first pick overall. I don't expect anyone to play near his level, even if he was first overall, let alone 32nd. I am encouraged by what I see in Ziggy because I don't think his problems are physical. He just looks like he needs Cowher to come over and lay some NFL Films on him.

At the begninning of the season I would have taken Legs over Foster too. So far the grading is miles apart, with Foster surging and Legursky falling (one game at guard, one at center, both not good). But we're only talking about two games, so anything can happen. For example, Kemoeatu had a near perfect game week 9. Who knew? If I was going off of that game alone, I'd put him in the Pro Bowl. And I'm one who's wanted him cut for years, and still do. So scores can change, as I expect Kemo's will.

I think you are jumping the gun a bit, assuming Legursky will be our starting LG next year. I'm hoping one of our first two picks goes to that spot, and whoever it is starts week 1 (not a stretch for a guard when there's a wide open vacancy, even for the Steelers). I also think you're jumping the gun in blaming Gilbert between the two, saying Legursky has to cover his mistakes and keep an eye on him. Again, only two games in on these guys, but Gilbert has been playing much better than Legursky in my book, and on the occasions he makes a mistake, so far it's usually to the outside when he's one on one. I'm not sure I've seen him beaten to the inside yet. In fact, guys don't really even try it, since his weakness is lateral movement and it's more common to go outside on a tackle anyway. They pretty much speed rush him all day. Plus, like you said, Legursky has been said to be our smartest OL player... but he really doesn't play like it any more than he plays like our strongest OL player, and he gets beaten one on one a lot. If he continues to grade poorly for me, then I'll still give him a chance at the interior backup slot, but I'm convinced he should not be starting. Not that I thought otherwise before the season.

Well, I didn't say he was the best ever, or the best Steeler tight end ever. I said he was the best I've ever seen, and I answered the "Really?" questions in full above. I'm not going to try to convince you if your analysis includes "doesn't break tackles." Uh huh. And Mike Wallace can't get open deep. That's a dealbreaker, ladies.

Best I've ever seen. Absolutely.

Well, obviously "half the player" his hyperbole. He will never be as good as Harrison. But who will? You know what I think of Harrison. But if Worilds can be as good as someone like Porter or Gildon, I'll be satisfied. We can't replace all-time greats with more all-time greats like it's nothing. The best we can do is replace them with guys who can do the job, and let the new all-time greats come wherever they happen to come.

Timmons at OLB was an experiment? Because he was suffering so much on the inside? I thought it was because two out of the three top OLBs (and later, all three) were injured. I know he's best inside, but I just watched him play half of week 9 outside, and played admirably in my opinion. Check it out if you have it. I dare say that for the fourth guy on the depth chart, he was anything but a failure and quite successful.

 

just gotta say, spent 20 minutes on the can reading all this until my cheeks were asleep. great read and great back and forth debate. respectable and understood. keep it up guys.

 

Interesting thread. Hats off to Snack for taking this on. I am expecting to see a lot of people surprised with your results. Many of us, myself included quite often, only watch the games once. I believe this leads to a less than comprehensive opinion about individual players. If a player is not directly involved in the end result of the play and the commentators don't point them out, most observers would miss their role in the success or failure of the play. This leads to comments like "I wouldn't have even known that Hood was on the roster". (Blocking for example rarely draws much attention unless it is done exceptionally well or exceptionally poorly) I'm not saying that fans who don't watch and rewatch the games are dumb, or uninformed, or any less of a fan. Only that we don't always see everything clearly when watching a game realtime.
I will say that I think Steeler fans are better at this than most fan bases. Steeler fans tend to appreciate the more subtle underlying battles on a football field, not just the highlight reel stuff. That is why players like Heath are loved in Pittsburgh, while going almost unnoticed in the national view.

 

Also, congrats on 1000 posts.

 

As much as I wish he was I doubt heath is in the top 10 in tight ends in the league

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... &Submit=Go

Actually it says here he's the 17th best. But then again, Dallas Clark was injured, and some guys had to split reps with other tight ends on the team, like Joel Dreessen, Jeremy Shockey, and Dennis Pitta, so realistically he's probably more like the 28th best current tight end, and around the 5,000th best ever.

 

haha

 

One could argue Heath was never utilized properly as an offensive weapon (by the OC formerly known as _ _). He's been relegated to helping our inept line try to protect our qb. Let's get a couple new studs on the OL and sign a FB so we cut Heath loose over the middle. 70+ receptions & 10 td's per year should be a reasonable expectation if we use him primarily as a receiver instead of a blocker.

 

Thanks Snack and Cajun a lot for the quality analysis! also Thewanderer for giving the perspective of the "retrospective impressions of a fan"
, this should make for some much needed quality reading during the dog days of the offseason..

I agree with Cajun, ward looked very weak and slow following the first game. You would think he would still have his hands, even if he lost his ability to take hits over the middle or lost his quickness, but I distinctly remember him dropping key 3rd down passes. Also getting knocked out of both the new england an baltimore games (especially on the illegal yet unflagged helmet to helmet concussion causing whooping by ray lewis) didn't help.
I can't see him being worth 4 million, when he's a guy who we had to basically lateral him the ball in order to get him catch 1,000, since he really wasn't very productive in any other fashion.