Butler is it scheme or lack of talent

Lack of developed talent. We've got 3 rookies either starting or playing significant time (Hargraves, Davis, Burns) and some other guys that might have 'years' but don't have significant playing time outside of this season (cockrell, moats, chickillo). Scheme or not, it's a nightmare to have a rookie CB lined up with a talent like Dez Bryant..... but it's not really different from how we played AB vs Washington. Our defense is not that good right now and our offense needs to help overcome that. We were competitive against (arguably) one of the top teams in the NFL right now, but couldn't finish the deal.

Think about it, at any given point in time we could have 50% of our defensive talent as underdeveloped or rookie meat..... you don't see that often in the NFL

 

Ironically, we were in a Carrol-esque Over Front on the Game Winning Elliot TD. Unfortunately, Jarvis Jones got turned outside of his gap... against ****ing Jason Witten.

Jarvis Jones is garbage. It wasn't a coaching failure. It wasn't bad scheme. It was Jarvis Jones sucking.

 

And you know what, they will probably give him a new contract in the off season, to save face and being to stubborn to admit he is a 1st round bust......

 

Everybody wanted DEs. Well, the team has DEs. Now we need D-Linemen. The D-Line is average with Cam in. They are atrocious without him. Unless they find it in themselves to step up, then the rest of the season may be a mess.

Cockrell and Burns seem to have both the athleticism and the talent to keep up with most WRs long enough to allow a decent front 7 to put pressure on a QB. The issue is that the front 7 isn't making that happen with enough consistency.

Most importantly, they can't stop the run. Everything else can be accommodated. But not this.

 

So is shooting gaps and making tackles for losses. How is that staying in our lanes approach helping our pass rush? Heyward, Tuitt and Hargrave are more than capable of rushing the passer,but it's not so easy when all you do is bull rush with the fear of straying out of your lane...football is pretty simple , dominate the man in front of you. I guess Heyward and Tuitt must of lost their talent,the same talent we've all seen with our own eyes. Why do you think almost every year they make a point to say that we might let our DL play a little looser and get after the QB .I guess the reigns are still on or those guys forgot how to play....

 

I don't know how the Pats do it ,they are always picking just about last,constantly trading out of the 1st round,trading All Pro. players on both sides of the ball,cutting productive guys for being late Oh wait I know.........COACHING! They don't have the most talent on paper,especially on Defense how do they manage to field a quality D every year,wait for it ......COACHING! Why is it that we can never beat them besides that time we actually decided to do something different on D and changed our "scheme" ,was that a sudden influx of talent for that one game or was it "scheme"? Preparation,putting your players in position to succeed and ............say it with me......

 

Shooting gaps is not independent from staying in your lane. I don't know that you have a strong grasp on the fundamentals of scheme and playcall. Our DL/LBs get calls where they can shoot their gaps. It largely depends on the design of each playcall.

Your implying that the Steelers don't shoot gaps... you're flat wrong.

It creates the 1 on 1 scenarios that you need. Unfortunately, we don't have enough talent to consistently win 1 on 1 matchups on the outside.

You're clearly not capable of discerning what's going on on the field. Those guys don't simply bull rush down after down... and given Tuitt's and Hargraves lack of career pressure, i find it rather amusing that you think they are more than capable.

Tuitt's talent is very much up for debate, are you watching? oh wait, you are watching but you think all the players are good, and it's just bad scheme.

I don't know, but I definitely don't take rhetoric from media sessions and extrapolate answers from it... i watch tape though. it's a lot more informative.

I find your statements very confusing.

 

The only way Jarvis Jones gets a new contract is if it is a 1 year deal near the veteran minimum. He's a depth player, not a starter.

 

the team will tag Jarvis next year

 

If it makes anybody feel any better... Green Bay's defense might be worse than the Steelers D. No joke.

 

Apparently they have decided jones isnt a starter, this just in:

Report: James Harrison replaces Jarvis Jones in starting lineup

• Bryan DeArdo - 16 hours ago
• 0

James Harrison is back in the Pittsburgh Steelers staring lineup.

Initially reported by Mark Kaboly of DKPittsburghSports.com, Harrison will replace Jarvis Jones as one of Pittsburgh's starting outside linebackers. Harrison has just one start to his name through nine games and has tallied 2.0 sacks, two forced fumbles and an interception thus far.

 

My sentiments exactly!

 

Oh so I guess when you draft first round and other early round talent and you select players that scouts and analyst say are good picks where they are drafted,maybe even steals where they are drafted and then they continually don't pan out on our team then clearly the scouts ,analysts,our GM and coach who obviously saw something from these guys by watching tons of "tape" completely whiffed to on their assessments because clearly we should be getting more production out of these guys considering where they were picked. Coaching makes a HUGE difference at every level....I played some semi- pro level football and I can tell you first hand it matters. I might not be a X and O guru like you maybe ,but I also don't come across as a arrogant know it all either....I didn't come at you pretending to know everything and claimed to have the definitive answer to our struggles ,but clearly you do. There was no reason to come at me with your derogatory tone.....I guess the Internet makes geniuses and tough guys out of some people...

 

You're pretty sensitive for a football player

Who are you talking about from a draft perspective? Draft status means very little.

No amount or caliber of coaching can add bend to Jarvis Jones game.

No coach can change DHB's hands

Coaches develop technique and teach scheme, they don't create talent, they don't change athletics.

 

Can we all agree Jarvis is the "Black Sheep" of Pittsburgh Steelers edge rushers in terms of success in the past 20 years?


This whole throwdown between scheme vs. talent has already been answered by those who are in this thread from another; the latter of which is clearly an issue with Jarvis Jones. To say that our scheme needs changed to benefit underachievers is the equivalent of attempting to make Bunker Hill using only a handful of pebbles; impossible.

 

But I think we can agree our defense isn't saddled with a bunch of no-talent players. Lots of high-round draft picks there means young players who demonstrated their talent.

 

We can disagree some.

Jarvis Jones is a 1st rounder who lacks pass rush talent.

Artie Burns is a 1st round rookie, who is playing like a rookie

Lots of high round draft picks never made the Browns a formidable defense

Etc

 

How the f did our defense regress so bad lol oh well here's to next year being a miracle for our D

 

It's mostly talent, we don't have a single dominant defensive player, not one player who we can count on every single week to beat his opponent. We used to have 4 or 5 at least. What is disappointing is they haven't even replaced ONE of our stars adequately.

That said, the scheme is so predictable it must be easy for NFL coaches to see what's coming, every time we blitz it is comfortably picked up, and we have been watching this for years let's be honest and we haven't terrified the QB since the 2008 era defense.

Over and over and over, the blitz gets picked up, or our defender gets to the QB a hair late AGAIN, JJ is a master of this art form. I can't wait to see the back of him, what a bust, Dupree has disappointed after a hot start, and every snap could be Shazier's last of the game or season he's so brittle.

We've some good players, but not one who is dominant and I think our better players will look a whole lot better if we can actually find someone who can get the QB and someone who can cover.

There was a certain inevitability about last weeks loss, with 45 seconds and 3 timeouts left you knew the game was over and that there was no chance the defense would get the job done, and then a couple of plays in and that useless **** gives them 15 yards.

I was really surprised we were not smarter about the clock, but no, there we were running up to the line and rushing off a play and leaving waaay too much time on the clock. The Pats in that situation would have left no more than 20 seconds on for Dallas, the difference in smarts ion the two org's is why they win 12-14 games every year and deep in the playoffs and why the Steelers lump into a WC spot and are one and done or they lost the div on the road.

There's a lot more talent on this roster than NE's, but it is nowhere near as well marshalled and well managed as their's is.

 

I had a friend who used to say, "We can agree to disagree, as long as you don't mind being wrong." And he meant it.

Thanks for not being that guy.

Jones seems to have had it in college, though. I'll ready concede that college success guarantees nothing in the NFL. Hard for me to say if it's LOFT (lack of f'ing talent), technique, strength, or a combination. I guess that's the point of this thread, though!

Burns has the talent, I believe. Development is a collaborative process, but that means the coaching staff has to contribute their part.


And I like to think (donning Homer glasses) we'd never compare ourselves to the Browns. I mean, those guys aren't even capable of playing .500 ball! Oh, wait ...

 

Nope ...college tape and production......all a mirage....maybe some fancy CGI at work here

 

Although I don't agree with your DL theory, I do agree we are not mentally prepared to play on every Sunday and it shows.

 

Answering the initial question, I would say it is a bad scheme due to Butler's lack of coaching talent.