big bens shoulder

This was on behind the steel curtain ben said he played with a hurt throwing shoulder for a lot of games last year. The guy from btsc said looking at some film it looks like ben isnt lying and thar is a big teason our passing game went to hell. Think about it ehen a qb cant plant its all arm well add a hurt shoulder and its going to be ugly. The good news is he is already in training for next year.

 

I hope he took off enough time to heal properly, before starting training.

 

Frankly, I'm not surprise by this. Ben gets abused like a prison inmate practically every time he takes the field. After 8 years he's probably closer to having the body of a 35 to 40 year old, not the 30 year old he is. Unless he changes his playing style ("tweaks" as Rooney calls it) and the team signs or drafts some quality players to protect him, he will have a shortened career.

 

this is where i find fault with us not having a decent BU. if ben was this beat up and it's affecting his play this much ,he's hurting the team more then helping it. sit out a game or two. i can't believe a backup,( if he's in this league) at 100% is worst then ben at 50%.

 

We can blame that on not having a quality backup QB, not having protection and not adjusting the gameplan.

 

Charlie Batch and Dennis Dixon.

When it comes down to it... the docs cleared Ben to play. Once that happens, it is considered that Ben has all the physical capability to be successful, on the field. When a coach gets that info, then Ben is playing. Especially when Ben says, "Yeah, I'm good to go," following the docs clearing him.

 

then i'd say bens ego is hurting the other 52 guys on the squad by doing it.

 

i don't know scott, they have shown the ability to adjust the gameplan before when needed. the first 4 games last year without ben. two years ago when memo was the feature back for a 4 game stretch. the NE game this year was an adjustment that worked. this is what the good teams do. i say we have to stop letting ben dictate the way the team is run for the rest of the 52 guys when his this hurt/ injured. it sure didn't help us at the end of this season.

 

Come on this is nonsense..... I would not want a QB on my team that would take himself out of a game, if he has been cleared to play. Plus to expect that any NFL player worth his salt would do so is just crazy. The NFL culture is one the prizes toughness above just about any other trait. Short of surgery or a being in the hospital you are only considered hurt, not injured. So, what do you think would happen to his teammate view of him, if he said nay I am going to sit this one out I don’t feel right. All tell you … he would lose their respect, which as an NFL QB you can’t have. You couple this with the fact that confidence is one of the MOST important attributes a top NFL QB MUST have. As a QB you must have a burning desire to compete and the confidence (if not out and out arrogance) to believe no matter how great the challenge (whether it is the score or being hurt) you WILL be able to do what it takes to win. That is what let QBs forget about the last interception they throw and keep throwing with confidence. It is what enables them to make great 4th quarter comebacks after having a terrible game for 3 quarters. No matter what other flaws Ben may have toughness and confidence are not among the list. I for one am thankful, since these are to traits he shares with all the great QBs that have played in the NFL. Do you really think Bradshaw, Unitas , Montana, Young , Elway or any other great QB would voluntarily remove themselves from a game, if cleared be the team doctors? I will answer for you …. Not in a million years

 

Are those docs on the Steeler's payroll?

 

I don't buy he had a hurt shoulder....its just an excuse.

We all know his ankle prevented him from planting and throwing.

 

Sad,But true.

 

and if you cant plant your leg.. you have to use all arm.... which can hurt the shoulder.

 

it doesn't matter how tough ben is , if injured and can't make the plays he needs to, and that hurts the team. injuries keep players from doing the things they need to on the field. it happens to the best of them. tough has nothing to do with hurting the rest of the teams game, by giving them the best chance to win because a guy can't run the offense the way it needs to be run because he's injured. cleared by the dr. or not. ben knows better then they do of what he's capable of doing. he also slaps charlie batch in the face by saying i'm better at 50% then you are at 100%. yea thats a good teamate and they will really look up to him for letting the rest lose because he doesn't want to come out with an injury. that's where a head coach needs to make the decision for him. he also seemed pretty well healed to play in the pro bowl. ankle and shoulder. ben has a way of doing things ben wants without the best interest of the team.

 

Come Mac you can’t be serious … I am being to think you have lost all objectivity when it comes to Ben….. Let me say you completely miss the boat on the toughness issue. All players are playing hurt by mid-season. In fact, most of these “hurts” would have us on bed rest. This is not just my opinion, listen to any ex-player talk about their playing experience and this ALWAYS is brought up. What is also always bought up is how you play (no matter how hurt), because you do not want to let your teammates down. If you are cleared to play you play... period. Not to play is not even a consideration, and if you won’t play you would lose the respect of all your teammates. Again this is not me saying this, but every NFL player I have heard or spoken to. Can you name me one starting QB that has ever voluntarily removed himself from starting, if clear to play? The only one that it appeared to have done this was Cutler, and he was totally vilified, till it was learned that he actual had s significant injury. Hell, I can think of a number of instances where a QB was ruled out and (wrongly) publicly lobbied to be allowed to play. So in short, yes I definitely think his teammates respected him “saddling up” and playing. In fact when you hear teammates and other players talk about Ben the one thing that ALWAYS comes up is how tough he is and this is always said with admiration. There is no way you can argue that Ben’s playing while hurt was a selfish act, when in fact, in the culture of the NFL that is exactly what is expected of him!

Now your agreement that perhaps Tomlin should have benched Ben is more valid. If the coaching staff actually thought Ben was a liability to the team winning and the Batch offered a better chance of winning, then yes he should have been benched. However, this did not happen, and since no coach wants to loss and with the Division title still on the line, it is obvious that Tomlin and the staff felt Ben offered the best chance to win. This does not surprise me; if Ben was cleared to play you go with your star QB. Ben has repeatedly shown that he can play at a high level while hurt. Right or wrong decision it at least makes sense.

 

So despite having a bad ankle and shoulder, BA and Ben still decided to consistently throw deep? Seriously, what in the hell kind of game plan is that? If you can't plant your foot and you have a bad shoulder, then short throws are the way to go. It's not all on BA either, since we all know that Ben had a huge amount of input into which plays were called (if not complete control).

At some point, Ben needs to understand that he doesn't always need to be the hero or be on Sportscenter every monday for the team to win. Sometimes, non-flashy short throws and PA are the way to win games. I hope Haley can get him to understand such a simple concept.

 

Thats on Tomlin, not Ben, no matter how much you want to make it about Ben, it's not. No athlete will do what you are suggesting. They all think they are supermen and all think they are the best option, even when not 100%. Thats why they have coaches, to decide whats best for the team.[/quote:ljrksctr]

Agreed. I'm hard on Ben (maybe too hard, but that's debatable) but when he's physically able to play but isn't healthy enough to play well, I expect the coaches to step in and pull him, I don't expect a player to pull themselves. I played hockey at a competitive level, and I played with a pulled groin and a hairline crack in my foot. I was maybe 50%, but no way in hell would I have pulled myself out of the game.

 

Agreed. I'm hard on Ben (maybe too hard, but that's debatable) but when he's physically able to play but isn't healthy enough to play well, I expect the coaches to step in and pull him, I don't expect a player to pull themselves. I played hockey at a competitive level, and I played with a pulled groin and a hairline crack in my foot. I was maybe 50%, but no way in hell would I have pulled myself out of the game.[/quote:xeqbrfdc]


Exactly my point Shiner .. I played college football ... and never saw one teammate ever pull himself out of a game on there own. We had guys playing with fracture wrists, smashed finger, broken noses, separated shoulders.. you name it .... and that was the college level things are even more insane at the pro level. So with a culture like that it make absolutely no sense to blame Ben for wanting to play.

 

here again you are talking about a guy hurting, when i'm talking about a guy being injured. ben himself as early as last year talked about himself falling under the persona of being big ben over being ben rothlisberger, playing injued is not thinking about the team. he knew danm well he could not make the throws he needed nor could he even hardly hand the ball off on stretch plays. we all saw that. ben needs to quit being big ben all the time and do whats best for his teamates from time to time whether it's forced or not. i could care less who's names on the back of the jersey. i want the steelers to win not just ben. thats where my problem with him lies. he's all about big ben. the other thread about him working out early because eli now has caught him makes me want to puke.

 

Like I said you can definitely aren't be objective on this subject.... If Ben was passed by the training staff and doctor in football parlance that means he was only hurt, not injured. I don't know your athletic background, but any athlete will tell you that you play hurt. This is a cultural thing driven into you from pee wee league on. Now in a perfect world maybe you would be right, but in the world of professional athletics you are 100% wrong. For Ben to be the leader of the team, he must want to play or he would definitely loose the respect of his teammate and coaches, it is that simple.

 

woodley and silverback were cleared to play in a couple of those games too and sat out knowing we had more important agendas ahead of the team. i don't think one player or coach thought any less of them for coming out of the game.

 

woodley and silverback were cleared to play in a couple of those games too and sat out knowing we had more important agendas ahead of the team. i don't think one player or coach thought any less of them for coming out of the game. [/quote:27fuq5ex]

I don't ever remember Harrison choosing to sit out. Anyway, in Woodley's case, it was a hamstring issue. Sure, he's medically cleared, but he's actually unable to play. There's a difference between being unable to play due to injury and being able but ineffective. Ben was able to play, Woodley was not. A LB can't play with a hamstring injury, it's just not possible.