Help me understand the Billings hype.

OK, I'm new to this message board, but a long time Steelers fan who used to post on the old Official Steelers Message Board. What is Drunk Hillbilly (We'll crush them; they suck.) up to these days?

I've read a lot of posts about how Andrew Billings as being a target for the Steelers, and why the Steelers need a nose tackle, and how Billings fits the Steelers' scheme.

The Steelers need help along the defensive line. Steve McClendon left, leaving Big Dan as the only NT with any experience on the roster. The fact that the Steelers made little effort to keep McClendon speaks volumes about what they think about the NT need.

Cam Heyward and Stephon Tuitt played over 80% of defensive snaps, and that is too much. Former Chargers defensive end Ricardo Mathews was signed for depth.

The Steelers de facto base defense is the 2-4-5. Robert Golden often replaced Lawrence Timmons in that formation.

Andrew Billings is a tackle, whether in the 3-4 or 4-3 formation. Nothing I have read suggests otherwise. Enlighten me with a link, if you have.

The Steelers attended the Baylor Pro Day, and I read a report from back then that said the Steelers showed the most interest in Billings among teams that attended. I'm not sure how such a conclusion could be drawn without knowing the context or criteria for measurement. However, on the list of official visits, combine interviews, and pro day attendance, the Steelers didn't meet with Billings, only with receiver Jay Lee. Former Steeler Joe Greene who last served as special assistant for pro and college personnel in 2013, had dinner with Billings.

The Steelers brought in A'Shawn Robinson for a visit. As opposed to the draft profiles on Billings nearly every one I've read about Robinson suggests he could fit in multiple schemes, including as a nose tackle / tackle in either an odd or even front, and his best position might be as a 3-4 defensive end. This guy sounds like a bigger, faster, cheaper Steve McClendon.

The Steelers first priority is the secondary, as indicated by the state of the roster and the number of corners and safeties that made official visits. The likelihood of them selecting a defensive lineman over one of the top corners seems unlikely, and if none of the top corners are there, I think they might select a top tier offensive tackle or OLB if they happen to fall because of the run on corners and quarterbacks.

So, from both the perspective of what the Steelers should do, and what they are likely to do, I just don't see how people are saying things like "they are targeting Billings." If it came down to a choice between Billings and Robinson, I would both recommend and predict they select Robinson, based on overall need, capabilities of the two, and pre-draft interest level.

If I'm wrong, how and why?

 

If you listen to all the rhetoric.... Billings is supposed to be a nose tackle with pass rush abilities. Theory is that he could be a 3 down player.... at least that's what the talking heads are saying. Welcome back.

 

Thanks. I have read Billings can collapse the pocket, but the Steelers don't leave the NT in on 3rd down or against 3 / 4 / 5 wide receiver sets, no matter the down. I have never seen the 3-3-5 in use.

At just 6'0" Billings doesn't have the length the Steelers like in a defensive lineman that has to rotate in at DE. Robinson is 6'4" I believe.

 

I think the hype also comes from Joe Greene being very high up on the guy. Mean Joe, Mike Tomlin, and Kevin Colbert all three took him to dinner. The only time I think all 3 have been present at a dinner with a prospect. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

We go back to 3-4-4 7th Lombardi

 

You put Cam, Tuitt and Billings on the field in 3rd and passing and watch Shazier have a heyday shooting those gaps.

We never went 3-3-5 because we probably never had the personnel and/or need for that package. We've usually had plenty of effective LB's on our roster, but that isn't really the case any more. Might be shifting more towards the line, so taking off one of the weaker LB's for an interior disruptor could be a good way to handle ourselves.

However, if we are simply looking to fill the traditional run stuffer NT position I think that would be a waste of a pick, especially in the 1st, because I think McCullers is that guy. Any "NT" we take should be able to play 3 downs.

 

We could get enough personal to go back to that now. It's possible but not probably.

 

Billings for me is a good fit for Pittsburgh due to his ability to penetrate and disrupt, not to mention his upside as a pass rusher. Considering how well Billings can hold the point of attack and easily take more than one lineman, this just creates opportunities for Heyward and Tuitt to cause havoc.


The most interesting thing about Billings is that he is more than a nose tackle. He is not as stout against the run like Jarran Reed or cannot obliterate others in terms of penetration like Sheldon Rankins, but he is the best of both worlds.

 

Agreed. Personally, I do believe that, should Billings be the pick (more likely though Karl is but you can never be certain), Butler definitely can tool that front seven now anyway he wants. Billings, to me, is a representation of a new era of NFL defensive lineman. Personally, I do not believe the "Nose Tackle" itself is dead. I do believe however, that using them just as space eaters is not as effective as it once was due to the arrival of fast paced offensive teams are nowadays.

 

Copy/paste

A dominant nickel front 4, will improve our secondary.

LEO-Dupree
3Tech-Tuitt
1Tech-Billings
5Tech-Heyward

It's essentially an Under front for our Nickel... and keeps us stout against the run (something we were susceptible to in Nickel).

We can then also transition in to a run base 4-3 as well, giving Jarvis a role he's actually suited to as a Strong Side LBer (Subbing in for the Nickel back)

I don't view Billings as a NT. I view him as a hybrid DT, a 3 down DT. He can play 0, 1, and 3 tech. And when we play significant games against pocket passers like Flacco, Brady, Dalton, etc, a front line of monsters that can penetrate instead of relying on edge benders is definitely a direction this team is headed.

 

That's a nonsense argument ("if he lasts until 25...")

Muhammad Wilkerson went 30th.

 

So when asked about the Nose Tackle position during the pre draft press conferance Colbert said stuff like this. (Not verbatim) "There is still a need for run stuffers. Guy who can start or rotational guys in sub packages." Rhetoric like that. Didnt mention pass rushing or Qb pressure, technique, any words like that. I think if he was speaking from a true place and not intentionally smokescreening, that we should not expect a DT in the first round and instead Colbert might take advantage of the considerable depth at D line this year in later rounds. However if Rankins or Billings or whomever is "special" in their eyes, they may pull the trigger regardless.

But I think the writing is on the wall with all the DB pre draft visits, pro days, etc.

Outside Linebacker @ pick 25.

 

Watch him play. I wasn't to sure what it was until I actually watched him some. The kid just disrupts every play it seems. I mean I watched him against okl st and he blew up a double team like it was to high school kids.

 

Interesting. For me personally, I do see him as a three, one and zero tech. Considering Pittsburgh has moved from the Hokie to Eagle scheme; giving more freedom for defensive lineman to penetrate and disrupt, this will ultimately unleash Billings abilities early without worrying about him reaching his full potential early. For what Pittsburgh requires in defensive lineman now is to not only hold the point of attack, but attack offensive lineman head on to either get to the quarterback or stuff the run.


This is what brings me towards why I can see him why he works in zero, one or three techniques. Billings overall strength is more than enough to take on interior offensive lineman. However, it is his quickness off the snap that will help him early on. Not too many interior lineman are ready for that type of quickness and power.


For your reason regarding his lateral agility, please keep in mind that his ankle was not 100%; limiting his overall agility. It was not until his pro day that he was complety healthy going a 6.97 in the three cone if I recall.




I understand that you do not see a special player in Billings. I also not understand the fuss either when I first heard of him. However, as I continusouly watched him, I noticed that there was more to Billings than I thought in addition to why he was playing so slow. After realizing this, I was looking forward towards his pro day since he would be fully healthy by then and my assumption was correct.



Now, will he be a special player? Not right away, but I do believe that, in time, he can become a cornerstone for the front seven. Butlers scheme and his athletic talent will ultimately culminate into a tier one front seven; bringing back days when Pittsburgh constantly ranked in the top five.



Ultimately, just give it some time. Pro football focus, for better or worse, has the Steelers ranked 1st in the draft since '96. People like Polamalu or DeCastro did not light the world on fire day one. There is no gurantee Billings will either. However, Butlers Eagle scheme and Billings athletic talent will help him and the front seven maximize their talents soon enough; much like Dupree did despite a mid season slump.

 

The versatility is their on tape. He takes on doubles in 2 gap run support, he takes on triples in rush situations. He gets single gap/pocket collapsing alignments, and then moves to a tilted nose on the next snap.... im drinking....
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/andrew-billings-vs-west-virginia-2015/

Snap 1: 1 Tech, maybe he needs a snap to warm up...
Snap 2: 0 Tech Tilted Nose, filthy rip shed
Snap 3: 1 Tech, A gap stunt
Snap 4: 0 Tech, Double Team, held both A Gaps
Snap 5: 1 Tech, Double Team, held A and B Gaps
Snap 6: 1 Tech, Counter Away
Snap 7: Moves to RDT, 0 Tech, Destroys play
Snap 8: Stunt Pass Rush... tick tock... slow
Snap 9: 0 Tech, Rush, collapse, sack
- This Strong man formation is something i see the Steelers heading towards. Instead of moving our 5 techs inside, and bringing our tweener edge guys from both side. We keep our 5 techs in their more natural positions, put a pocket collapser in the middle, and bring a single wide edge rusher (Dupree).
Snap 10: 0 Tech, destroys center, disrupting ability to get horizontal for the screen.
(I'm probably off by this point... in terms of snap counts)
Snap 11: 3 Tech, blows up double team, collapse pocket
Snap 12: 1 Tech, Works down line
Snap 13: 1 Tech, Beats double, collapses pocket
Snap 14: 0 Tech, A Gap Seal
Snap 15: 3 Tech flip
Snap 16: 0 Tech, Stunt to strong side B Gap, counter to weak side B gap, Playcall win offense
Snap 17: 0 Tech, Godzilla play destruction... im at the 2:49 mark...
Snap 18: 0 Tech, Destroys run play, forced outside, no gain
Snap 19: 0 Tech, WVU has had enough, here's the straight triple team
Snap 20: 1 Tech, Double, running low on gas?
Snap 21: 0 Tech, Look at that punch
Snap 22: 1 Tech, is that a double or a triple?
Snap 23: 1 Tech, 1 arm separation to pressure
Snap 24: 0 Tech to B gap stunt
Snap 25: 0 Tech, OK... sure... don't block him on a run play... TFL
Snap 26: 3 Tech, ugly
Oh man, i love this upcoming goal line series.... 4:30 mark
Snap 27: 3 Tech, I don't even know what to call this gem
Snap 28: 3 Tech, again... 3 tech... why? Because it makes their run predictable... away from Billings
Snap 29: 0 Tech (shaded weak side), allows D to blitz playside C gap
Man... I love front liners who can dictate the game in critical situations (goal line)
Snap 30: 1 Tech, wins, but gets folded inside
Snap 31: 0 Tech, Collapse the strong side
Snap 32: 3 Tech
Snap 33: 1 Tech, to Drop Spy
Snap 34: 0 Tech, loses A gap
Snap 35: 1 Tech, Running Away from Billings
Snap 36: 0 Tech
Snap 37: 0 Tech, Tilted Nose
Snap 38: 0 Tech, Double Team loss
Snap 39: 0 Tech, I could watch this play all day, crossing the face of the center, destroying the LG
Snap 40: 1 Tech, Splits the double, forces throw
Snap 41: 1 Tech, Great read, closes B gap, forces run back
Snap 42: 1 Tech, Triple team, gets single for both outside guys
Snap 43: 0 Tech, Gap stout
Snap 44: 1 Tech, Triple chop block lol
Snap 45: 1 Tech, turned and Pancacked

I may have had 1 too many tonight...

Kid just turned 21. He has elite raw power. He has scheme versatility and experience in an NFL Defense. Not to mention that the Baylor 4-2-5 is similar to where our defense is heading IMO.

Is his athleticism a concern? Not really. People read too much into Star Lotolulei's "athletics". IMO Billings is one part Aaron Donald's ridiculous raw power, one part Star Lotululei's interior versatility, and one part 21 year old high caliber draft prospect.

As this kid gets coached up, and puts some camps into his body.... forget about it, he's gonna be a beast.

 

I think I am taking an Alabama coached player if they fall to us
and this is direction we choose to go. God I hope not.

 

Andrew Billings played the 4-3 at Baylor, but the way he is buily, can make an easy transition to 3-4 or 3-3.

He ran. 4.96 on his Pro Day.
Benched 31 reps.
Ran down a running back 40yrds down the field.
Really fast off the ball and has tons of tackles for losses, with some pass rush ability.

With Cam and Tuitt, Billings could make our DL amazjng, plus.. you can use him in sub packages as well as a DE.