Projecting the Steelers in a 4-2-5 base defense

steelerswire.usatoday.com/2016/03/24/projecting-the-steelers-in-a-4-2-5-base-defense/
Tomlin said they will play nickel about 70% of the time, probably why they let McClendon walk. If this is their plan then they should've got some veteran help for the secondary in free agency IMO. They're asking a lot from the rookies they will draft, specifically 3 rookies at these positions DT, CB, S.

 

Need Dline depth... I would assume it negates the usefulness of some of our LB core. Yes we need a ton of help starter material and depth wise in the secondary... Maybe Tomlin is full of it, but our traditional 3-4 has shrunken snap wise over the last couple years.

In short I don't think we have the horses nor enough horses to run that package 70% of the D's snaps.
Thankfully they're dropping the chop blocks as that's not a run friendly alignment against a run heavy O

 

tuitt, heyward, philon, lyons, walton. dupree, chickillo. add a couple of DE/OLB types in this draft and we could be ok up front. add one good corner from the draft and one safety and we will start to look much better. grant, cockrell, walton, chickillo and lyons have a year under their belts. i expect some more from them in year two. philon has some time in nfl camps now. he was a decent player at louisville, hopefully a year makes a difference.

 

We are in fairly good shape up font on the 4-2 part, I stated last year that we have some big LB'S you can use up front in the walk around style in passing situations . Speed is more dangerous than power in that regard IMO. I don't think we have much on the back, we need at least 2 if not 3 good players back there.

 

i don't think we are as far off as some think. we got rid of 3 guys that hurt us a lot at times. cam thomas, will allen, and blake. hopefully with a year of coaching and weights, these young guys will be hungry. it usually is a big difference from year one to year two for most players. we are not asking this depth up front to start but to give us good minutes. if we can stay healthy with our starters, a year of part time field time for these backups could make a huge difference.

 

I wonder if they try to use Chickillo more this year with his hand down as a DE. He is used to it already. Maybe this makes sense for him.

 

I hope you are right Mac , I just don't like our young CB'S very much at all . We really don't have any young talent at Safety unless one of the CB'S can convert ? You had a thread about speed on defense and I think we need it back there big time and not sure the guys we have have enough of it.

 

i think he and dupree will make a decent tandum with tuitt and heyward. i'm betting he has a big increase in playing time in this type of defense we are transitioning too.

 

the talk of grant moving back there is a big increase. he always did tackle well and he has that corner coverage ability. grant ran a 4.37 at the combine last year. golden is a 4.5 guy. mitchell is a 4.45 guy. cockrell is a 4.44 guy. golson a 4.43 guy. dupree is a 4.56 guy at his size. chickillo was a 4.79 guy but lost some weight, and even at the heavier weight had some good short area quickness numbers. much better than JJ and a lot stronger. add timmons and shazier's speed and our guys up front can all run pretty good, we have nice speed.

 

I really, really hope your right.

 

Yeah, our speed is very good. Now if we could get the injury element out of the equation, then we'd really have something going. I guess I'm thinking specifically about Shazier. But I'd give up some of that speed at safety for a ballhawk who's slower but makes plays.

 

Maybe Grant moved back would help. Golson,Cockrell, and Golden all seem slow in the mind to me . Not calling them dumb just it seems they think and then they react never look to be flying around on tape to me. Mithcell does have some speed , but he uses it wrong, he is more of a hitter than a fight for the ball guy...

So I guess when I say Team speed on Defense I mean not only guys who can run fast , but guys who can play fast and play fast in the correct way. Do you think we have the right fast ball hawking types ? The main reason to get in a 4-2-5 is to make the ball come out quickly ,again I don't think we have any route jumpers I hope we get 2 in the draft..

 

grant and golden were corners too. i'd like to think they have a decent ball skills. add a good one from this draft and we could have improved the back end quite well over will allen.

 

Hey Mac, got a question...........do you have confidence in Grant or Golden covering A.J. Green or Perriman in man on man coverage? Especially a 5 "8" corner covering A. J.?

 

as i said cockrell got in here late so i think he probably was thinking a lot. year two in the system and a full camp with what he learned playing last year should help him play faster. golson we don't know yet, but should have a better understanding of the defense than a true rookie. grant has good tackling skills and with the play in front of him and the corner background and year two should transition quite well. golden has improved in his position play and that ST's captain designation seems to have given him a goal, which i think carries over the will to now gain a position starting job.

 

i think that question is asked by every team. i feel better about them than will allen or blake doing it.

 

This I agree with. I would feel better with you guarding them instead of Allen or Blake . I am sure we will get at least 1 CB in this draft, I just hope he is a stud...

 

That goes without saying. LOL.

I'm sorry but I don't think Golden or Grant would be any better at handling our rival wide receivers in our division. This is a game of inches and hobbits are not covering A.J. or Perriman. We need wide receivers who can cover and also has the measurables. There is not a runt cornerback in this league who'd I would put on an island with A. J. Green and think he'd be successful.

 

We don't play a style of defense that puts CB on an island. Also Golson is a slot Corner, won't be covering AJ, which is why you don't see the Steelers trying to resign Boykin.

I wasn't a fan of drafting Golson, We had Gay in the slot. Maybe it'll workout, but we definetly will need another CB. Cortez is expected to be back and better ( I'm worried ) but hopefully Grant steps up. Maybe they saw in Pratice something we haven't been able to.

Cajun-

 

When we run a Nickel Defense it's NOT limited to the 4-2-5. We run an exrta CB in our base ( no NT ) or a Big Nickel with an extra safety instead of CB. We'll use 2-4-5 personnel but in a 4-2-5 alignment. The point is when you have position flexible Players you can re-align schematically without substitutions. Having Shazier gives us that. The NFL trendy LB/S hybrid or S/CB/ILB Hybrid type of guys actually makes a defense unique and dangerous.

The NFL has produced a pass friendly environment and OC have embraced it and their ways of attacking a defense has evolved and if DC don't change they will get beat. Hybrids do that, when you can't get the dominating players you need.

Cajun

 

I`m not sure why we are transitioning into a defense, that IMHO, plays to our weakness, instead of our strength...
I was kinda pleasantly surprised by our D last year...

We were getting pressure on qb`s, more than we were before, but if we don`t put the qb on the ground, he can exploit our secondary...
Even if he`s not a "top-tier" qb...

I`m still dissapointed they let Spence and Garvin go..

And brought in, Johnson(? from the Broncos) to replace them.

I dunno...There`s a reason I`m not a coach, just a casual fan, but...

Why try to force the QB to throw, when you`re admittedly weak in the secondary???


And I am still confused as to why Doran Grant was cut from the team, then re-signed to the P.S., but never saw the field on Sundays last year...

He seemed to have more ability, than anyone I saw at CB, last year, other than Gay, and, AT TIMES, Cockrell...

I just have a gut feeling, that there were off field/ character issues, that the coaches saw, that we didn`t,

So why count on him making contributions this coming season?
I hope he does, I think he`s capable, but it appears the coaches don`t.

This is just a gut feeling, but it feels to me, that we are making changes for the worse instead of the better this off-season(With the exception of letting Blake go, and signing the TE from the Chargers)...

I hope I am wrong, And I hope Silverback comes back next season, for a shot at a SB ring, but I wouldn`t be shocked if he didn`t.

We will see what the draft brings, and the season to come, but it feels like our time with Ben is getting short, and I want more Lombardis NOW!!!!


Feels like we are borderline, and still have a chance, but I also feel we wasted an opportunity to take care of business, last year, injuries, or not...

GO STEELERS!!!

 

We are all feeling antsy like you my friend. All of us want to maximize last 3-4 good years of Ben's elite play. But we have to allow Colbert/Tomlin to play our their hand through the draft and the next wave of free agency behind the draft. Let that dust settle and see where we stand. I'm thinking that for once, we are going to see marked improvement (at least on paper) in the quality of player we have in the secondary after the dust settles. And maybe even find a DT and/or OLB prospect too.

 

Ideally, we draft a day 1 player at either the 1/3tech or the 6/7 tech. My ideal targets would be Billings for the 1/3 and Dodd for the 6/7

With Billings, you would slide Heyward outside to His more natural 4/5tech in Nickel. Ideally stealing a little from the Seattle under front. Tuitt would play to his strength as a 1 gap penetrator. billings would occupy 2 in the 1 tech keeping us stout against the run and collapsing the pocket against the pass. Dupree would get the wide release from the Leo. It would look like:

LEO- Dupree
3tech - Tuitt
1Tech - Billings
4Tech - Heyward

MLB - Timmons
WLB - Shazier

And if it works... You can easily more back in to run package 4-3 by bringing Jarvis onto the field for the SLB spot, keeping his hand off the ground.

 

There is the 2-4-5 and 3-3-5 front concept:

For years fans and pundits of football have tended to describe defenses by the personnel employed in their fronts, as in "are they a 4-3 defense or a 3-4 defense?"

This has become an increasingly out-dated and unhelpful way to describe what teams are doing for a variety of reasons. One reason for the uselessness of this terminology is that defenses are coming to be defined more by an outside-in paradigm with the coverages determining everything up front. What's happening up front is secondary to the defense after what they are doing on the back end.


Another is that there are "4-3" teams that will play their weakside or strongside 9-tech defensive end in a stand-up position and even occasionally drop him into coverage. Are they now a 3-4 defense despite utilizing the exact same front? Teams came to be better defined by whether they were asking their DL to be one-gap or two-gap players but then hybrid defenses started to take over in which some DL were two-gapping and others were not.

Finally there's the fact that with the rise of spread passing games at every level of football, most teams are rarely in 3-4 or 4-3 personnel packages anyways, instead playing nickel sub-packages. Since those nickel packages are the primary strategy for defenses, teams prioritize players that will fill the roles of those packages.

However, there are two nickel fronts that are coming to encompass the common packages of modern football in the way that the 3-4 and 4-3 served to describe what most teams were doing in the past.

The 2-4-5 front: And the 3-3-5 front:

 

And this is why Shamarko can't figure it out.