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I think Swann`s comments about Megatron could backfire

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by BigBensBigBong, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. blountforcetrauma

    blountforcetrauma Well-Known Member

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    Yeah he sucked at fantasy so he clearly isn't a Hall of Famer. LOL! They should make a Fantasy Hall of Fame. It would probably be named like "The Matt Stafford Fantasy Football Hall of Fame" since he's a guy that can put up tons of garbage stats but can't hardly win a game to save his life. LOL!
     
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  2. troybellringer55

    troybellringer55 Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad he retired, that is one less Super Mega deal a WR is getting.
    Anyone notice Drew Roshenhaus was sitting next to AB at the NFL honors show.
    He knows AB is a big money ticket. I just hope he doesn't play his ears like he did with Terrell Owens.
     
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  3. blountforcetrauma

    blountforcetrauma Well-Known Member

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    Big name agents make me nervous as well.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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    If you just base a receivers career on stats, then TO is clearly a HOFamer, with over a thousand receptions and 156 TDs he is the prototype for a receiver to be inducted, but unfortunately for him the voters are holding his personnel conduct against him, also, because a player played his career on a bad team shouldnt enter into the conversation during the selection process.....
     
  5. MorrisFoster

    MorrisFoster Well-Known Member

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    Playing on a bad team will actually inflate receivers numbers. That team will always be playing catch up.

    The year Stafford threw 727 times and Johnson set the receiving yards mark... the Lions went 4-12.

    On the other hand being on a good football team benefits a RB. See Emmitt Smith, Franco Harris, Marshawn Lynch etc.

    Good defense + lead in 2nd half = many runs vs tired defense.
     
  6. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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    I was just quoting the article that said this: "He's also been the victim of one of the most dysfunctional organizations this side of the Cleveland Browns, with quarterbacks that have ranged from serviceable to awful" That said, CJ always had to make his catches in double and triple coverage from a QB who was always throwing under pressure that made his catches even more difficult to catch, he was a great receiver considering the kind of teams he played on, Swann shouldnt judge any receiver based on the poor stats he had....
     
  7. MorrisFoster

    MorrisFoster Well-Known Member

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    How does that make ANY sense? QBs that have ranged from serviceable to awful?

    CJ had Stafford for 7 of his 9 seasons. (6 really when Stafford got hurt).

    Stafford had a 5000 yard season and he is "serviceable" hahaha OK.

    Brian Hoyer is "serviceable" while Stafford is a franchise QB with probably the best deep ball in the NFL and a Pro Bowler.

    Love these fictional "triple teams" too. Golden Tate has caught MORE passes than Johnson over the last 2 years. Pettigrew was a beast early in his career but now has been replaced by Ebron. Someone should tell the teams that are "triple covering" CJ that the Lions are actually stacked offensively.

    Hahaha.

    CJ's record season? He was targeted 204 times out of Stafford's 727 throws as the Lions went 4-12.

    Like Swann said... CJ's stats haven't helped tbe Lions have they?

    CJ is a victim of the Lions??? I wish a company would victimize me for 15M a year!

    CJ's salary can be better used on the roster. Detroit is the undeniable proof that receivers don't win Super Bowls: Herman Moore, Johnny Morton, Roy Williams, Mike Williams, Calvin Johnson.

    List of great receivers never to win a Super Bowl: Steve Largent, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Chad Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Tim Brown, James Lofton, Andre Reed, Cris Carter, Charlie Joiner, Irving Fryar etc.

    Receiver stats are more inflated in Detroit even than they are in New Orleans. What relevance or impact has Johnson had on the NFL? Putting up big yardage (though only 1 100 catch season) on a terrible pass happy team? That makes him great?
     
  8. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

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    Put me in the "different era" category. You can't compare the guys.
     
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  9. GoalLine

    GoalLine

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    backfire how exactly - take Swann's gold jacket away? He is entitled to his opinion and I can see valid points for and against his opinion.
     
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  10. shaner82

    shaner82 Well-Known Member

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    Of course it enters into the conversation because it matters. Calvin's crappy team is why he never made it to the Superbowl. Does anyone truly believe if Lynn Swann played for the Lions that they would have made it to the SB? Surely no one is naive enough to believe that any WR on earth can single handedly take a team to the SB. Some of the things I'm reading in this thread make me wonder how many of you guys even watch the game these days. Seriously, watch a game other than the Steelers for once. Calvin Johnson has been the most dominant WR in the NFL for many years. Only recently did guys like Julio, Brown and Dez kind of surpass him. No, he won't have the longevity that a guy like Jerry Rice did, but when he played he was the best player at his position for almost his entire career.

    You guys are right, you can't compare players from different generations. What you can do is compare a player to all his current peers, and Calvin was better than them all, even with crappy QB play for many years. Calvin is a sure fire HOF and anyone who thinks he won't get in truly has no idea what they're talking about. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Calvin is going to get in and it's not going to take him long at all
     
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  11. Steelers412

    Steelers412 Well-Known Member

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    He's been ABs agent. Who do you think was the one telling him to sit out last year? The whole Business is Boomin and his agent. Some of you are going to be really upset when he pulls a Wallace and goes for the big payday. I'm mad too but I already know it's going to happen.
     
  12. MorrisFoster

    MorrisFoster Well-Known Member

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    Calvin Johnson -

    Top 5 in Rec 2/9 seasons
    Top 5 in Rec Yds 3/9 seasons
    Top 5 in TDs 4/9 seasons

    Jerry Rice - Up until injury in '97

    Top 5 in Rec
    9/12 seasons
    Top 5 in Rec Yds 11/12seasons
    Top 5 in Rec TDs 10/12 seasons

    Neither player was Top 5 in their rookie year. But do you see a difference?

    Calvin Johnson was arguably the best receiver in the game for 3 years: 2011, 2012, 2013.

    Other than those 3 years he was never a top 5 receiver. Period.

    And during those 3 years that Johnson was "elite"? Stafford literally broke records for most pass attempts. Stafford averaged 675 attempts per year during that stretch!

    You want Johnson in the HOF for a good 3 year stretch where Johnson was targeted more than any receiver in NFL history while his team went 21-27?
     
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  13. troybellringer55

    troybellringer55 Well-Known Member

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    I knew he was his agent. But, of all people Drew R. could be with he was with AB. More than likely his most marketable customer right now.
     
  14. MojaveDesertPghFan

    MojaveDesertPghFan

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    I prefer the one with AB catching the ball dropped from a drone hovering up in the ionosphere. That was epic. Wonder what Sweed would have done in that contest? Probably fake a sudden 24 hour tumor (a Woody Allen line). :shrug:
     
  15. Steel_in_DC

    Steel_in_DC Well-Known Member

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  16. Steel_in_DC

    Steel_in_DC Well-Known Member

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    Okay you got me convinced. Good arguments, I am not ready to put CJ in the HOF.
     
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  17. eire_steeler

    eire_steeler Active Member

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    I don't understand the lack of respect for how good johnson is. I genuinely don't know why. Maybe if he played for the ravens or something I could see a reason to downplay his talent to maybe feel better about it.

    I don't know how to link it but search for 'Calvin Johnson double teamed vs Saints' on YouTube. That was maybe a hint at why he wasn't always top of every stat list, because of the attention he commanded. That and he seems to have been quite injury prone. If you do watch that video imagine how amazing he would have made a good team (in other words not the lions) look drawing stupid coverage like that.

    I haven't watched football long enough to judge him against a player called the GOAT like Rice or a player from a different era like Swann. I do think he is an amazing player who has played on a terrible team for his career so far. I'd take him even now though. Even beat up from injuries through his career I'd cheerfully risk it. He might be out of our price range though.
     
  18. shaner82

    shaner82 Well-Known Member

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    It's a common theme on this site I've noticed. People regularly trash Brady, Brees, Manning, etc. Overrated is a word I've seen used plenty over the years to describe other star players around the league.
     
  19. tyler christopher

    tyler christopher Well-Known Member

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    Horrible post by someone that is probably 20 years or younger. You do realize swann was among the leagues leaders every year............. Different era...........
     
  20. Steelers412

    Steelers412 Well-Known Member

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    Good point! I wasn't even thinking about that. Out of all the NFL players he chose AB. We are screwed.

    I saw TO say this on Twitter...



    Steelers Nation need to @AB at this one. Maybe he can talk to TO and finally realize that guy is a snake.
     
  21. MorrisFoster

    MorrisFoster Well-Known Member

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    Antonio Brown over the last 3 seasons has been as dominant as Megatron ever has.

    Brown from 13-15:

    375 rec on 541 targets (69%) 5032 yards 31 TDs

    CJ from 11-13:

    302 rec on 518 targets (58%) 5137 yards 33 TDs

    Put AB in the HOF now!!! Stats!!! 3 years of elite play!!! Stats!!! AB 4 HOF!!!
     
  22. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

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    If Brown plays another 3 years he will crush CJ's stats.

    Is Brandon Marshall a HOF WR? His stats are not much different than CJ's. IMO they are borderline at best. This is an era of passing offenses. It's like arena league football.

    Both had 6 ProBowls. Marshall did it on multiple teams and never really had a great QB either. I'm sure Marshall had a lot more victory's in his career also. Pretty similar careers IMO.



    Marshall -31 years old / Games 152 / Receptions 882 / Yards 11273 / YPC 12.8 / TD 79


    Johnson - 30 years old / Games 135 / Receptions 731 / Yards 11619 / YPC 15.9 / TD 83



    If Johnson played 2 - 3 more years he would probably lock him self up a HOF spot. BUt he coudl also be brain dead. So I don't blame him if he quits. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy that really cares about being in the HOF>
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
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  23. MorrisFoster

    MorrisFoster Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Johnson would make the HOF if he continued to play. There are at least 10 WRs and TEs that should get in ahead of him.

    Johnson's talent is undeniable but when you look at his career you see how many of his catches were made while trailing and in games that had no meaning.

    And contrary to the "constant double team" narrative I have found that teams gave Johnson a soft zone coverage because he was such a deep threat.

    I care about stats in such a way that I try to see how they were impacted by the way the game was played. Like Jerry Rice's 1848 yard season came on 176 targets. If Jerry had 204 targets like Johnson he would have had over 2100 yards that season... at 33 years old.

    All of Rice's single season marks will fall. He didn't put up numbers in the 80s like he did with Young in the 90s.

    Montana never threw for 4000 yards let alone 5000 like Stafford... and Montana is considered by most to be the best QB ever. In 6 years with Rice he attempted 400+ throws just twice.
     
  24. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    If stats were the only factor to being inducted into the HOF, TO would have gotten in last week.

    I've been watching football since the 70's, Johnson is one of the best receivers I have ever seen play the game. I'm sure a lot of the guys who vote on this stuff will feel the same way.

    I don't know if you punish a guy because he wants to retire with his health intact instead of padding his stats.

    Johnson passes the eyeball test.
     
  25. MorrisFoster

    MorrisFoster Well-Known Member

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    7/10 players with the most receiving yardage in NFL history aren't in the HOF yet. Moss, TO, Bruce, Gonzalez etc. Those guys have to get in first.

    And I think you absolutely "punish" a guy for walking away early. Michael Irvin played until he was damn near paralyzed- he was a fierce competitor who loved the game. Terrell Davis had to quit the game due to injuries and I think he should be in the HOF... if he had walked away I don't think so.

    Lynn Swann who has taken tremendous heat for his comments played while Tatum was severely injuring players and even paralyzed a guy. Tatum and Atkinson HATED Swann. They thought he was a ballerina f*****. Swann played in those games where he was being concussed from hits to the head every play. Those guys made Burfict look like a pussy.

    My opinion is that the HOF is for players like Ward who limped through games when hurt, threw blocks like a fullback and cried when he had to retire from the Steelers rather than play for another team.

    Johnson has 50 million in the bank and an NFL record (in a year he was targeted 204 times) that could last as long as 3 years from the NFL to comfort him as he waits 20 years to get in the HOF.
     

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