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Why does Ben always swing for the fence ?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by steelamazing, Jan 18, 2016.

  1. Steel_in_DC

    Steel_in_DC Well-Known Member

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    My guess is the answer to this question lies somewhere in between he is impatient and taking what he sees or that the Steelers just don't emphasize short routes. Keep in mind there have been a lot of plays this year where the Steelers have converted 3rd and shorts with a long downfield completion and I doubt many of us complain about those completions. Also it is possible that Ben went through his progressions on that pass to Wheaton in the EZ and Miller was originally covered.

    One thing I do wish the Steelers would develop is a more precise short passing game ala the Pats. Wheaton was supposed to be the slot receiver this year, but his best games and catches were largely when he was going more downfield or on intermediate routes. It seems like all the Steeler short passes are the pop pass variety to Miller or the WR screens. The Steelers do very little of those quick dart throws in a 5-10 yard area beyond the line of scrimmage where the receiver runs a curl or slant. The beauty of those routes is because the DB cannot hit you beyond 5 yards if you can get to your spot before the DB it is virtually uncoverable and provides the QB an easy target and completion.
     
  2. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    That's a bad guess.

    On that play, Jesse James leaking to the flat is the first option. As a progression of routes, Wheaton is the next option as Ben would come off the first to the nearest route/side of field. He makes that decision just as Heath flashes past the zone LBer and open on the crossing route.

    No blame to place. It's just football. The first read is covered, the 2nd read is open for TD... good throw, weak WR, possible PI call missed. It's football. You don't have to blame Tomlin, or Ben, or Haley... maybe Wheaton a bit, when has that got won a contested ball! LOL.
     
  3. defva

    defva Well-Known Member

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    I wish he would pick up the 1st down ...move the chains...and then bomb it
     
  4. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    I'd have the re watch the game or play which I have no desire to do and my old age is hindering my memory so feel free to correct me but wasn't the throw to Wheaton into double coverage? I wouldn't necessarily consider that open...and it seemed to me that Miller flashed while Ben still had the ball...again my memory. It could be that Bens reads or his anticipation of Miller becoming open were a little slow...idk.
     
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  5. tyler christopher

    tyler christopher Well-Known Member

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    Ben is maybe the worse long ball thrower in nfl. I know you have to keep defense honest but Not on 3rd and 4th and shorts. Get the friggin 1st down. The first pass to wheaton he was wide open. Brady and rodgers do not miss those layups......... Ben under pressure has been horrible since last drive in packer sbl when he was throwing to a triple covered wallace and had heath running up the middle all alone on back to back plays. What is he doing taking sack on last play of game? Throw the ball, I do not care if no one is open. Maybe we get a makeup call pass int for when bryant got raped in endzone by talib.
     
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  6. SGSteeler

    SGSteeler Well-Known Member

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    If you read a post on the first page of this thread you will notice a link posted that Ben was graded the best deep ball QB in 2015 by PFF. I don't know what you see when Ben throws it deep, but he is really good at it. They throw deep pretty often in short yardage situations because that's going to be the easiest spot for one of our guys to get open. Most teams play man and stress short routes in those situations, which means we have the best WR corps in the NFL lined up one on one all over the field. We like our chances of winning those match ups.

    Basically it's easier to throw deep on 3rd and 1 for the same reason that it is tough to throw deep on 3rd and 15. It's all about what the defense is expecting, what coverage they're playing and which routes tend to get open against those coverages. Simple as that.
     
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  7. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    I guess if you want to have the stance that Ben was the one that got the team into the playoffs then he was the only one to blame for an offense that only scored one TD. See how that works?

    Ben didn't get the team into the playoffs by himself. Ben didn't lose the game by himself. You don't know if the team would had been 5-11 without him.

    I don't believe anyone blamed Ben for the loss. People question why he can't take the high % play for the 1st down when a TE, RB, or WR was open?
     
  8. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    The simple answer is he is playing the way he is Coached and that is the way he wants to play anyway ...Ben says it all the time if he sees a shot he is going to take it . The only way that mind set could change a bit is by Coaching ..I really have no problem with that if we had WR'S making those combative catches ...This brings up a very interesting point ... How can Bryant,Wheaton,or DHB get better at it ? Simple practice .. Wait they practice against scrubs .Probably has a lot to do with them not being able to adjust and make the play in the games ...In practice it is simply to easy ..

    So instead of trying to change Ben or get Haley to change his approach,, go and get some top notch DB'S ..Let them work against some real talent and I bet you will see a lot better results...
     
  9. GoalLine

    GoalLine

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    not against our D :facepalm:
     
  10. 86WardsWay

    86WardsWay Well-Known Member

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    Just started watching the replay of the game. 1st play 50 yards down field into double coverage. I don't understand the play call at all. Sure, It shows that he can do it but then why wouldn't they hold back if they know he can? Should have dinked and dunked the whole 1st qtr and then open the 2nd qtr with the bomb.
     
  11. steelamazing

    steelamazing Well-Known Member

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    I would agree its a great idea to an extent, at the same token even though he is the best at the long ball it is still only a 30 % chance he makes the play, odds are far better to pump fake it to wheaton then roll left slightly for an easy pitch and catch, in this case Heath was wide open.

    Especially on the road, on 4th and 1, in a divsional playoff game, already in fg range, against the best defense in the league
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2016
  12. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin Mod Team

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    Probably in hopes to keep them honest.

     
  13. tyler christopher

    tyler christopher Well-Known Member

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    If you think Ben is the best about throwing the bomb then you have no friggin idea what your talking about. I do not care about a stat when ben slips a tackle and extends a play and has brown all by himself down the field which he still underthrows by a mile. He stinks at the 5 step drop and throwing down field in stride. Stinks at it.
     
  14. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    I would not call that double coverage. You could call it BAD double coverage if you want. But not the type of coverage where Ben shouldnt have made the throw. 1 safety moves to the box pre-snap. Ben audibles. He's got man-press coverage on Wheaton and off man coverage on Bryant on the other side. A single high FS is shaded to Wheaton's side. Wheaton wins immediately off the line. The window between his man CB and the FS is enormous. The read and throw are a no brainer. Ben simply missed.

    You cant dink and dunk your way down the field in the coverages Denver came out in. They were pressing, the were bringing a safety in. Pittsburgh had to show that their window was larger than dink or dunk, or they'd be dead in the water.

    It's the same thing with the much maligned 4th and 1 play. It's designed to go to James, Wheaton is the 2nd read. Ben read it right (Heath doesnt flash open until AFTER the wheaton read is made. Unfortunately Ben underthrew this one.

    such is life when playing with a banged up throwing arm. But it's still what they HAD to do. You can't dink and dunk against an elite man coverage team if you aren't a threat to do anything else...

    If you want to complain about plays... its the 1st down sack/facemask play when Ben had the numbers off the snap (Wheaton/Bryant/Heath combo route on 2 man)... only to have Decastro, Gilbert get owned off the snap.
     
  15. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    Do you watch a lot of non-steeler football? To claim he aboslutely stinks, is an indication that you don't watch a lot of other NFL games. Im not going to claim Ben is the most accurate drop n go thrower in the league, but he's definitely not bad. He doesn't stink. He only stinks because the misses stand out to you as a Steeler fan and you don't have the proper context to compare it league wide.

    And anyone watching the last year or so... knows that Ben "slipping and throwing deep" is more of a rarity than a trait these days.
     
  16. 86WardsWay

    86WardsWay Well-Known Member

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    I agree. It wasn't double coverage but rather one on one and a safety over the top. He saw it was man and tried to take advantage of it Wheaton beat his man but the safety closed and did his job. Didn't work. Simply overthrew it. If he connects it's a home run pass but still a low percentage play so not surprising it wasn't caught. I'm sure he didn't throw practice bombs before the game so as not to tip his hat so the chance of completion becomes even more less. The game wasn't won or lost on that first play. I just think that they should have waited to show his ability til later in the game.
     
  17. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    If Ben throws that first bowl on a rope (instead of overthrowing it and to the inside) it's a TD. The safety never comes close to making a play. But there is still payoff on the playcall even though it didnt go for a TD. For example, go to 2nd and 11 on the very next drive. All 3 DBs are 6-7 yards off the line. That's a product of "showing" that we could stretch the field. There is quite a bit of chess in football. It's why I HATE seeing people complain about WR screen passes, when those screens set up some of our biggest plays.

    Every play that doesn't get an immediate result, is not a bad play.
     
  18. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    I hope I'm wrong but you're about to see NE do it all over the Broncos.....and they're not a threat to anything else.
     
  19. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Dont be so sure, I think Brady is like 2-6 at Mile High, Gronk has his demons there too.

    I have a feeling Broncos will come out of this game with the win.
     
  20. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    The biggest problem Ben has in throwing the long bomb is that our receivers haven't learned how to high point the ball and catch with their hands similar to other great receivers. AB can do it but he his shorter and that hurts in the long bombs. But Bryant, Wheaton, and DHB struggle with catching the ball with their hands and at its highest point in traffic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2016
  21. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Trust me I hope you're right ,no one despises them more than me. I despise all Boston sports teams....
     
  22. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I wouldn't throw the ball to Wheaton in any jump ball/highpoint situation whatsoever. I'd only throw to him if he uncontested.
     
  23. Steel_in_DC

    Steel_in_DC Well-Known Member

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    It's really not a bad guess. The Steelers do not emphasize quick precise short passing except on WR screens. I agree that he went through his progressions and though Heath was wide open the decision was already made to pass to Wheaton and arguably Wheaton should have caught it. I am not really against the Steelers going deep on 3rd and short because they have had a fair share of success with it. I just think that Ben and Haley could better emphasize the slot receiver routes where when you run a very tight precise route it almost guarantees a completion. Tom Brady has turned himself into a HOF QB by emphasizing absolute precision on passes between 5-10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage, I wish Ben would do more of that....not completely change his game, just add that as part of his repetoire.
     
  24. Steel_in_DC

    Steel_in_DC Well-Known Member

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    Great post - couldn't agree with you more, Ben doing the Superman routine and slipping defenders is more of a rarity these days.
     
  25. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    Assuming he's talking about the 4th and 1 play then you are correct. While there is no way for us to know who was the first read etc the ball was late and thrown into double coverage.
     

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