Did you guys just see that...

I disagree the talent isn't there on defense especially the secondary, which is one of the worst in the league.

 

I have to wonder what you've been watching. Gay was terrible for Arizona. He was terrible for us before Lake. The only good ball he's played in his life was 2011 when Lake arrived, and 2013-2014 when he was reunited with Lake. He's exhibit A for Lake's success as a coach. He turned a floundering whipping boy with no athleticism or size into a strong #3 and decent starter. Gay was a rookie in 2007. How often do you see a guy turn his career around in his fifth season?

"The talent is there." It is?? If you meant, "I think we could probably get more out of these guys" then I agree. But the #1 problem with our secondary, especially at CB, is lack of talent. Hell, look at Blake. He's a guy that turned into a half-decent backup, after being cut by his first team and brought here as a special teamer. He's overachieved, and he's still not good enough. That's a lack of talent.

You might be thinking of Mitchell, who has athleticism, and had a successful season once. He also had many unsuccessful seasons. When we signed him the pessimists said he'd only thrived because of his surroundings. That's still possible. Remember, athleticism isn't talent. Then there's Shamarko, who we just haven't seen enough of to know whose fault it is he's not cutting it.

 

Yeah 3 pick sixes last year we should cut Gay right now.

 

Are you agreeing or disagreeing? What's your point?

 

Dude I've been pounding the "lack of talent vs problem with scheme" drum forEVER. I stood by it then and I stand by it now. There's no way you can convince me that DL was a genius and then one day just wakes up and is a bum and that Keith Butler has studied under him and learned nothing. It's just not gonna happen. Maybe 12 was talking more about the front of the defense than the back? I mean I'm sure you can make the case that Shazier, Heyward, JJ, and Timmons are talented but they aren't fully surrounded by talent like we've been used to. Maybe that's what he meant. I think we have a starting defense staffed with mostly what would be backups on other teams and if this were 5 or 6 years ago they would even be backups on this team. Again I totally agree that it's more of a lack of talent than it is a problem with scheme. Also the FO has really let the coaches down when it comes to addressing the secondary. DL just wasn't really given anything to work with. If we do manage to strike as much defensive gold as we have offensive gold recently then man we are gonna have another dynasty AS LONG as we do it while we still have Ben. My two cents anyway.

 

They'd been talking about Lake, and he mentioned Gay. His sentence about Gay in any context other than "opposite day" makes no sense.

But yeah, I love the idea that DL was awesome for 50 years, then "the game past him by" - right at the same time his players started to stink! Some coincidence!

 

Sorry I was agreeing that gay is a solid corner now. There is a reason Arizona made no effort to keep him and I don't think that would be the case now. You don't just happen upon 3 pick sixes in a year.

 

Think of it this way. You take a great third baseman and put him at first base where he stinks. Is it the player or how he's being used?

When I say the talent is there (I really mean has been there) I mean that these seem to be good players...as Brice McCain was gobbled up by Miami, right? They saw SOMETHING...they're just not being utilized correctly. It's not their fault that they're being taught to hang ten yards off the LOS. They're not being taught how to be physical. For some reason, the Steelers have drafted small corners to somehow fit a scheme. What this is, is anyone's guess, because schematically, over the past few years, they don't seem to know what they are doing. I do think the game has passed DL by. When Kevin Greene said he was running the same stuff from 1995, it was clear. DL hadn't adjusted at all to how the game's being played now. But it's not on him solely; it seems there has been a disconnect for years about THE TYPES OF PLAYERS the team needs. Cowher seemed to know what he wanted. Tomlin doesn't.

Living out here, I saw Willie Gay play a lot, and he looked better. That's just eyeball test. Nothing else.

 

Not 1 of the worst, by far the Worst one period . Every Team in the NFL has either a better CB or a better Safety than the Steelers do. Most have both . If we fired every DB we have right now 95% of them could not get a job in the NFL.

Most people have been screaming we need a pass rush and I have been saying for years if you can't guard anyone then the best pass rush in the world will not work. Ray Charles could pick this defense apart.

 

I am not going to argue that the Steelers have great talent in the secondary at the moment. And I have no idea why Boykin rode the pine all game. But when we talk secondary woes, I think we are talking over the past few years. It seems (with Allen and McCain and Gay as examples) other teams wanted them. If they sucked so bad, they woukdn't have landed jobs.

 

The way I see it: if you play 10 yards off the LOS, then the QB will be able to make quick throws before the pass rush ever comes close. This is what we have seen the past few years.

 

Right. The cushion we're using right now was in part designed around the blitz schemes, and in particular Troy's roaming. The advantage to having the SS sniffing around the LOS was that the QB had to take account of him - he had to keep half an eye on what he was doing, and the cushion did not allow him to make a read on where the CB was going with the coverage. If the QB gets the ball away quickly, fine - they've got 3-4 yards. Bend, don't break. If the QB loses sight of the SS, then the chances of him making a mistake increase.

If the CBs were in press, and the receiver beats them (this used to happen a fair bit against the Ravens, as our CBs were too small to take on the bigger receivers), then the QB could see the space to throw much quicker, and gets the first down.

But if you're keeping both safeties deep, then there's not as much need for the cushion. Or if the QB isn't particularly worried about Will Allen jogging towards him, he can simply read the coverage and pick it apart.

I don't think the defense as it stands works as well without some kind of CB cushion against most of the teams we play. What I worry about is how well the secondary is aware of each other's positioning, and how clinical they are in spacing the cushion and covering the zones.