Ben's a fourth tier quarterback according to this ESPN QBR ranking

I agree about both Ben's individual curve and about the commercials. Plunder the lox!

 

Ben's QBR distribution looks like a very good match for the average density curve of the "Second-Tiers", but the writers stuck him in the "On-The-Cusps" anyways. In fact, by eyeball Luck and Ben have very similar curves, despite being in different groups. And River's curve looks nothing like Wilson and Foles, who were all stuffed together.

Even if QBR is a useful stat (I don't know if it is), it is getting muddied by whatever biases the writers brought when they decided which groups to assign the QBs.

 

Bottom line is Ben is the best QB for the STEELERS! I don't care about an analysis against other quarterbacks.

 

As long as he stays healthy, Ben's career over the long haul from a stat point of view is going to be similar to someone like Paul Molitor in MLB. Molitor was a guy who never had MVP seasons or could outright carry a team, but over the long haul he compiled well over 3000 hits, was a .306 lifetime hittere, and he could hit with some power and drive guys in but not on the level of a Barry Bonds. But he did it consistently over 20 seasons and had good performances in the WS finally winning a couple on the latter part of his career with Toronto and Minnesota.

I see Ben the same way from a stats point of view. Ben rarely leads the league outright in QBR, TD passes, yards thrown etc., but the crazy thing is if healthy he is going to be in the Top 10, maybe even Top 5 of all the big passer statistical categories. Despite all this - I think there are going to be a lot of sports writers who will still not think of him as a HOF player, just a good QB - but if looked through an objective lens of how you'd look at Paul Molitor, the stats are starting to scream out that this guy is HOF no matter what some corny QBR analysis says.

 

P. Manning is Elite.....In the regular season and in stats only! When it comes to big games he has choked more times than any other QB, in fact he has the worst playoff record of any QB that is on an all-time greats list. I don't want to take away his achievements as he is the only reason the colts have a SB win this century and the only reason the broncos have a SB appearance this century but who would you rather have as QB in the playoffs? The only way I take Manning is if the entire playoffs including the super bowl were going to be held indoors in a climate controlled facility. Look at Mannings stats in the post season, the only reason he is bad is because he can't play in cold weather, in the heat I believe he is better than Brady but when it gets cold he isn't close so for that lone stat he isn't the greatest of all time. As for Brady, I still think he is a product of the system, Matt Cassell took that system to 11-5 and a big contract, and I'm not saying Brady isn't good but I would to see how well he would do behind a poor line, it would be interesting to watch but Manning is a fair weather QB, always was and always will be.

 

I used to think the same about Brady, but I now believe there is NO WAY he's a product of the system. He absolutely makes the system what it is. He simply has another gear that most quarterbacks don't. When he's challenged, he rises to the occasion. He is a fierce competitor and when someone tries to intimidate him he becomes the intimidator. How many times have we counted the Pats out and how many times have they risen to the occasion under Brady's leadership? EVERY SINGLE TIME!

It pains me to say that, but it's simply the truth. If he adds another Super Bowl to his repertoire, he's the greatest of all time. I hate myself.

 

Sad but true.The saddest part is Ben is clearly better physically. His arm is stronger, he can throw it further, he can shake off more hits. The problem is the polish. Brady comes to the stadium ready ,he expects new looks he welcomes blitzes, he dares you to try and out smart him.

The light has come on for Ben a few games here and a few games there . When it does he looks Great , hopefully he will find a way to stay in that mode or get in it more often.

 

Ben frustrates the daylights out of me at times. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's our quarterback, but I still contend to this day that he's a little lazy at times. He's always believed that his physical prowess will always give him the edge. Well guess what, that will only get you so far in the NFL. Brady's physical prowess won't get him anywhere, but his preparation and his commitment to having a higher football IQ than the 11 guys trying to stop him has gotten him to the pinnacle of his profession.

 

I put him right there with Brady in some ways better and some not and he's still building the case,

 

Perfection is what my wife demands of me so why not?

In all seriousness, I don't expect perfection. I think Ben is a great QB and it's probably unfair of me to compare him in light of Brady and Manning. Those guys are truly elite and you could argue they're number one and two of all time. Maybe it's just Ben has the misfortune of playing in the same era as those two and you might throw Rodgers and Brees there as well.

But Ben does frustrate me. At times when we really need him to come up big he goes out and pretty much sucks wind. He makes bad teams look good at times and, unfortunately , his last three post season games he's failed to deliver the goods. It started with the lackluster Super Bowl against Green Bay and the four and out, getting out-dueled by Tebow and, most recently, Flacco. I think Ben prepares, I just don't think he does anything extra to give himself an intellectual advantage like the elites do. That doesn't mean I want to trade Ben or I think we'd be better off without him, that's foolish talk, but you and I will continue to disagree on his off the field work and study habits. Then again maybe Ben doesn't have the intellectual capacity of the elites. I don't really believe that, nor do I believe he doesn't have the physical abilities of the elites. In fact, he's more physically gifted than any of them really with the possible exception of Rodgers. I just think it's more a matter of preparation.

 

I look at Brady (Brees to a great extent too) as the ultimate quarterback to represent this era of fantasy football. Brady has made a career of completing 5-7 yard routes which is what the game has largely become today. Brady is really good and a 1st team hall of famer, but his precision is to put it blountly - boring. Manning has become this way as well, though during the first 10 years of his career Manning was exciting to watch because he threw the ball downfield a lot.

I respect him for what he has accomplished and he deserves the accolades of a first ballot HOF, but I honestly think that Brady (and Brees) would never have lasted during the time when Montana, Marino, and Elway played as the game was far more physical for QBs as compared to today and I think he may have been decapitated if he played during the days of Bradshaw and Staubach.

For these reasons above I can't consider him the greatest of all time, though the media will be licking his balls for the next two weeks asking if he is the GOAT. By the way - as crazy as it sounds, coming into this season Peyton Manning had a better QB efficiency rating than Brady in the playoffs. Brady has had some good and great games in the post season, but he has also had some fairly unspectacular play as well and because of some blowout games he has been able to pad his stats in some games as well. It is a team game...and many a time Brady has had a very good ensemble around him because of the web that Belichek weaves.

 

I think you are both right. Brady could thrive under any system. But even if he seems to have another gear when he is playing well, he also seems to crumble faster if he gets hit a few times.

OL play obviously makes a big difference. Romo had a career year behind one of the best lines.

Imagine if Munchak can coach the Steelers line into a great unit. Improving them from bad to average this year was enough for Ben to tie for the most passing yards in the league!