Good article on Tomlin and Cowher

So it's Tomlin fault Ike Taylor can't tackle in that Denver playoff loss, I didn't like LeBeau's gameplan they were too worried about Tebow running and didn't play the pass well. It doesn't matter what any of us fans think Tomlin is signed thru 2016, then if he hasn't gotten the Steelers back in the playoffs by then the Rooney's will probably replace him.

 

Hogwash, Tampa Bay won a Super Bowl with a good defense and Brad Johnson at QB. As did Baltimore with Trent Dilfer, Washington with Joe Gibbs as coach won 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QBs none of them were franchise QBs. Stop making excuses for Cowher just about every year he had a top 5 defense and a top 5 running game.

 

Who's fault is that? Why is it that certain coaches have great Olines no matter how many talented linemen they lose? Don't tell me it's luck. Mike Shanahan could come into Pittsburgh and we'd quickly have one of the best OL's in the league. Tomlin has had 7 years to fix this problem...

 

OK i'll chime in but have been through this one before.
MT is not a bad coach in certain ways, like the like of his players to him and how he treats them and what he expects from them and his coaches, whether its carried out all the time or not.

he also is a guy that deligates most of the development of his players to his coaches to get right, but almost to a fault though. I would love to see him change things that are not working.

I will say he started quite green as a head coach. his hires at a lot of spots were probably mandated by higher ups. he did hire younger position coaches and such. they were not the best hires either for our players development. as MT has come along, he is starting to make some better decisions about coaches, which should speed up development. this is also his first true rebuild of his team, because of all the aging vets. some still here. making a lot of money. that part is changing now.

now the GM is also involved with what players have been given to the younger position coaches that we had. everyone pretty much knows how I feel about some of Colbert and tomlins decisions on players at certain spots. I've always said Colbert and cowher were better at finding players than MT and Colbert. I still stick by that. it's part of the reason we still have some of those players here and have hurt so bad as they left, without good next man ups.

I don't feel to different than del on the GM part of this duo. cowher could pick players that were closer to ready than Colbert and MT. he gave Colbert a lot of help in that department.

I'm not really unhappy with some of the direction they are moving the last couple of years at important spots. we will soon see, because it's nowhere near done yet and we may even have to wait until next year or after. wasting bens years. I do think they hang on to mediocre players too long on draft status. cowher was loyal too long to vets to a fault also. with KC.

we will start to find out Sunday at 1:00 PM in Da Burgh. Go Stillers.

 

What???
LMAO

 

You missed the point of my thread. Notice that the Dilfers, Johnsons, Flaccos are coming up more often now? Sure, there are outliers like Rypien, but the nineties were dominated by great QB play.

 

What's the LMAO in reference to, Dobre? It's fairly well documented that Ben wasn't Cowher's pick.
There was a thread a few weeks back debating the first part of what Canton said.

 

I see your point to an extent, but it's difficult to tell without another ten years to see which of the current QBs make it into the Hall. Of the QBs to win the superbowl recently, E.Manning, P.Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees and Ben are still considered great QBs in their own time (whether Eli ends up being remembered as a Montana or a Plunkett is another thing). Wilson could yet turn into something, but we'll see.

(Obviously these are the superbowl winners, not the guys we necessarily lost to in the play-offs.)

Just going off the original topic slightly, I wonder there are three reasons why I think this lot differ from the 90s. First of all, as I say, it's difficult to judge at this point how well we remember them.
Second, it could be that the rule changes to benefit the passing game mean that someone doesn't need the accuracy of a Jim Kelly or John Elway to put up decent numbers.
Third, it could be that the advent of fantasy means that the QB is not the face of the team in the way they were in the 90s, and there's more acknowledgement of the guys around them.

I'm not claiming any of those reasons are rock solid, btw - just putting them out there, really.

 

To me using a list like this as supposed proof of Tomlin's effectiveness as a coach is reach at best. It's far more likely that you overestimate the steelers and underestimate the opponents.

 

I also agree that Tomlin would make an uneffective couch. For all of his strengths, comfort just doesn't seem to be one of them. He is a very fit guy actually. Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying that I think Cowher would be a better couch. Actually his chin would pose a problem. So if you want to know who would make a better couch I think I would have to say Tomlin. That chin just isn't very practical and while it may make him look like a strong coach it is actually a weakness when it comes to being a couch.

 

If its Tomlin's fault that the line personnel is bad than it's also Cowher's fault that his quarterback, receivers, and defensive backs were bad. You can't judge them differently for the same thing: personnel.

 

The d-line was decimated in the Denver playoff game. Most were hurt. They were stacking the line of scrimmage to counter that. Tebow got a gift.

The d-line stays healthy and that game was a win.

 

Let's take a closer look at 12-88's list.

vs Colts #7 with 3 Turnovers.
vs chiefs #7 with an int and moore with lost fumble
vs Browns We won one game by 11 and the other by 32
VS Broncos #7 with an int. How many starters were missing?

oh boy the beginning of haley ball

vs Raiders 2 fumbles lost
vs Titans 1 int
vs chiefs lost #7 and a fumble
vs Browns 3 ints, 5 fumbles and Batch at QB

vs titans #7 int and a fumble
vs vikings #7 int and fumble
vs raiders #7 2 ints, 2 missed fg
vs dolphins #7 with fumble

Looking at it that way there is a far more obvious reason to our woes than Tomlin sucks.

 

LMAO

Caught me before it could be fixed.

 

IDK .... That story came from Dan Rooney's book. It may had some partial truth, but I think he was kind of tootin his own horn. I believe once all the assessment was done ... Cowher would have taken 1 of the 3 qb's in that draft.

 

Are you implying that it is because Ben sucks?

its not like we are the only "good" team that loses to bad ones. I remember distinctly a Tom Brady led Pats team lose to a Miami team that finished the season 2-14. Lost again to a pretty bad Cardinals team two seasons ago at home. Heck, I remember a few years back where the Browns beat Tom Brady's Pats and Drew Brees' Saints in consecutive weeks... That just happens to be what the NFL is all about. All of these teams can beat one another any given Sunday.

 

What elite qb did Cowher have a chance to sign or draft that he refused to bring in until Ben?

My argument is there weren't any out there.

 

I like Tomlin, I think it will be interesting to see the team he puts together after Haley and Lebeau are gone, because I think the FO really hired those guys, not Tomlin. Give him a chance to build his own team.

 

Ok, I can see why you might think that.

I suppose I'm not clear why Rooney would say something that Cowher (or any of the other guys around at the time) could easily argue against. Furthermore, Cowher was kind of limited in which of the 3 qbs he could take, as Manning and Rivers were going so early. The most I think I'd read into the story is that Cowher didn't expect Ben to be there, so had other plans, but I wouldn't go as far to say he was always going to take him, and Rooney was just claiming the pick in hindsight.

 

Give him a chance to build his own team? You're joking right? This is his team, not Haley's and not Lebeau's

 

Coach C was old school and was fine with a Game Manager at QB . He wanted to pound the ball and play strong D not the same Love as a lot of Coaches and Fans have for Qb's .

 

I'm curious, but what are we good at as a team? We don't run the ball well. We don't stop the run well. We don't defend the pass well. We don't get to the QB much these days. We don't force turnovers. We don't pass protect well.

What is it that Tomlin has our guys doing well?

 

I can't believe I'm reading excuse after excuse for the pathetic showings Tomlin's teams have had, on a regular basis, against bad teams. It astounds me, really. There are NO excuses for losing THREE GAMES to Matt Cassel at QB!!!!! No excuse. Just chew on that for a while: Ben record vs Cassel head-to-head: 1-3.

And stop with the injuries junk, too. No excuse for losing to Tim Tebow and giving up 300 yards. Tebow has since been cut, three times? Sorry. Even the Steelers' second stringers should have been good enough to shut him down. Tebow hasn't been able to make a roster, playing against third stringers and scrubs. STOP WITH THE EXCUSES!!!!

Even Terrelle Pryor beat this team.

The Steelers have brought in different coaches, and the results are the same: a team that never looks ready to play.

I hope tomorrow is different. I really do. But I won't be surprised if the Steelers struggle and have to eeck out a win, at home, against a team led by Hoyer and Manziel.

 

Tomlin could solve World Hunger and it still wouldn't be enough !
These Tomlin bashing threads are so redundant !