What Does a McCarthy Offense Look Like?

I think it's been reported multiple times that this never would have worked without Brady.

Because Brady would sit in meetings and take **** from Bill when he deserved it. Most elite players don't do this.

But because Brady did it, other players (who weren't the GOAT) couldn't complain about it either.

I think this is a big reason why the "Patriot Way" totally fell apart after Brady left.

Because even a great coach like Billy B isn't as important as the players. And you generally can't treat them like the coaches in the 70s (and earlier) did. Because the power dynamics are completely different now. Even if the start player doesn't get you fired (like Lamar just did with Harbaugh), they can just leave when their contract is up. And sometimes the cap means that you can't keep them even if you wanted to.

Guys like Noll (who was basically the perfect coach for that era) would have to coach totally different now than they did then.

And in today's NFL, you can only practice on the field ~ 15 hours / week. And you're only allowed 14 padded practices once the season starts (no more than 1 / week for the first 11 weeks...and no more than 3 in the last 6 weeks of the season).

For better and worse, you basically can't be a hard ass coach in the NFL anymore.

 

I'm solidly in this camp.

They were both very good coaches for long periods of time in a league that chews coaches up.

Neither of them were great coaches and I don't think either deserve to be in the Hall.

I think the bar for non-coaches should be very high. Reserved for guys who changed the game and / or presided over dynasties...especially Belichick and Reid who've done what shouldn't really be possible with UFA and a cap (although I think it's largely because they have elite QBs who are willing to play well below their fair market value).

Re: Cowher. Not only did he get in because of a special class. He was also the coach figure on one of the two main networks that pay the NFL's bills. And the guy on the other network was getting in (more fittingly IMO, even though I dislike the Cowboys). IMO the gap between Johnson and Cowher is much larger than the gap between Cowher and Tomlin (where I think it's basically a coin flip to decide who's better).

 

I agree. The real question is how would have Ben handled the Patriot way? I believe there was u ta—ed talent in Ben we never got see because he wasn’t as maniacal about being pre-armed like a Manning or Brady.

 

I disagree. Had Cowher stayed five more years there is a good chance he would have one or two more SB’s with that group. He was always missing that one caveat up until the last few years which was the franchise QB. Cowhers teams were pretty dominant for a good part of his tenure. The knock on him was the conservative play style on offense would bite home at times against really good teams. When we got Ben even though we were still conservative Ben had enough of the it factor where he could make the throw or big play when or if we needed it. Ben was great leading up to that SB in the playoffs that year beating the Colts and Broncos.

 

Who knows...but it seems like most super-talented guys don't take it well. Which is part of what made Brady special.

We know that he didn't take well to Haley pushing him. But it does sound like Haley was an *******...but I think Billy B was an ******* to players too.

 

Maybe.

And maybe if Tomlin was hired a couple years earlier he would have won an extra SB too.

The things we know are the things that actually happened. And there isn't much daylight between them. Certainly not as big a difference as there is between Cowher and Johnson.

Again, I don't think it's unreasonable to think Cowher was better than Tomlin (or that Tomlin was better than Cowher). I just don't think it's reasonable to think that one was worthy of the Hall and the other one sucked.

 

My knock on Ben is that he took 100% of the paychecks but did not give 100% of the effort like Brady and Manning

I see that as being dishonest and a waste of talent

Imagine what he could have been

 

Translation: You got owned

 

So true. He was more talented than those guys in a lot of ways.

 

I never said Cowher was worthy of the hall but had he stayed then yes. I also never said Tomlin sucked.

 

You make no sense. I clearly stated Harrison was coached up by Lebeau. I never mentioned Cowher. The whole point of the argument with Harrison was his gratitude and respect towards Lebeau and not towards Tomlin. Sheesh.

 

Again you chime in and miss the whole point. I never said Cowher was HOF worthy and nor is Tomlin. Had Cowher stayed there is a good chance he may have. The primary difference on why i prefer Cowher over Tomlins is ego. Cowher was humble enough to seek and retain really good coaching assistants and let them cook.Cowher understood where and how he could serve the organization best. Tomlin was like that in the beginning and then he became thirsty for more power and control. That really played out over the last five years. The difference in their coaching trees is telling as well and supports my point.

 

I'm not talking about what you said in that sentence.

I'm explaining what I believe the difference is between a reasonable and unreasonable take on the comparisons between Cowher and Tomlin.

Which was a continuation of the comment you responded to where I was agreeing with rule6 that Cowher and Tomlin are similar. Which is why I tried to clarify what I meant in the post you responded to (of mine).

 

Got it

 

He has 3 responses

If it’s his own thought it’s simple

Post someone else’s thought

Send a clown picture

That’s all he has

 

Well he basically used up the first two in his response to me.

 

Exactly and he was a lot better at assembling a coaching staff.

 

Imagine hating on the HC who gave you the chance to start and win DPOY

 

The difference was that Harrison simply played football for Cowher and Tomlin.

Dick LeBeau taught James Harrison how to play football, and Harrison knew how much LeBeau genuinely cared for him on a personal level as well.

Harrison loves Dick LeBeau and gives him so much credit for everything he has accomplished on the field.

 

I never claimed Tomlin was a better coach than Cowher, but I push back on dumb crap like he only won because of Cowher's players or he's another Barry Switzer.