60% of HC Hires Fail

What's even worse is when people say... "It is, what it is."

Also hate the saying... "More or less"

Those are phrases for people who like to hear themselves talk.

 

That is a very different discussion. If that is actually what is mean by "win a playoff game" then it hooks in with larger issues related to the Steelers overall organizational philosophy and priorities. Far more complicated than "win a playoff game".

But the drumbeat all across the Steelers internet is "win a playoff game"....and I still say....so what? If you are not constructed to be able to play SB winning football....then who cares what round of the playoffs you go out in?

The Steelers haven't been good enough to win a SB in 6+ years. And they were not good enough prior to the regular season even starting. What does it matter when they stop playing games?

 

If Rooney truly is afraid that missing the playoffs will set some kind of spiraling trend then he isn't looking at what actually happens in the NFL. Every year about five teams that didn't make the playoffs the previous year get into the postseason the next. It's not some death sentence to miss the playoffs one season like he might think. Teams rebuild each season, injuries happen or don't, draft boosts the losing teams. Maybe Rooney feels like the Steelers could end up Browns East if they have a losing season? It's just not well-founded thinking, even based on the Steelers' own past.

 

It does suck that we are apparently the worst rated team by players in the league.

This is a league that has 2x teams in Ohio. So that's really bad.

 

It is a bit ironic that HC was the only thing we seemed to score well on in the PA survey.

But it's impossible to get worse than 32nd on the list!

 

Prioritize the medium term over winning the next game.

So it probably means playing some younger guys even though they need to grow. For example, I think not playing P Wilson over M Harrison was idiotic last year. Same thing with hiring over the hill WRs instead of letting R Wilson play (and probably fail).

I'm generally not a fan of tanking, so I wouldn't trade cornerstone vets with high salaries. But a rebuilding team probably also doesn't sign a 40+ year old QB or a 30+ year old CB to big deals in the offseason.

But if we made those decisions, we likely wouldn't have made the playoffs. And could have been playing regular season games knowing we were already out of playoff contention. But we would have probably had an earlier draft pick (without straight up tanking).

And I think that's against the mission statement of the team.

I grew up outside of Toronto, in the Bills viewing area. And if we keep running the team like this, I think the most likely scenario here is that we're the Bills between Kelly and Allen for a similar time frame.

I think we're trying to get a result that was more like what Cowher was doing when we didn't have a QB. Where you can have a pretty successful team by running the ball and playing defense. But I'm not sure you can really get that result in the current NFL.

I've said this elsewhere on the board but: (1) I initially didn't like the McCarthy hire and (2) the idea of the Steelers having an offensive coach is growing on me.

 

and 3 teams in floriduh which is really really bad

 

or what have ya

 

you too busy huffin all the glue
boom
GOT HIM

 

If you figure it out I will cross it off my list of weird things that float around in here. During the coaching search I was told numerous times McCarthy wasn't in play because he was too old based solely on the length of time Cowher and Tomlin had coached. It was a good theory but we all saw how it turned out.

 

This is true. It is the reason he liked Tomlin. Thinking the "goal" is "just" making the playoffs misses the point. It is shooting for the SB every year. Making the playoffs keeps you in the discussion (real or not). If you do that EVERY YEAR, the result when you make the playoffs when you have below playoff talent is an overachievement.

Tomlins BOSS wants to focus on THIS SEASON every year over a long view. I also think this is Tomlin pov as well. Rooney and Tomlin were aligned in this. But ultimately, the "win now as much as possible" short term mentality starts from the top. As you said, Rooneys own words and not taking a flyer on youth but rather choosing yet another old "Mike" who generally makes.playoffs with little recent postseason succees proves the point.

 

I think Rooney sees teams like the Browns who are often out of the playoff conversation by the bye week and believes that it would destroy our fan base if that were the case for the Steelers (look at how much we hate only making the playoffs).

While I personally want us to rebuild, I think he would rather the known steady financial condition to the unknown of rebuilding. Especially since the most recent offensive "retooling" was pretty much a complete failure (Najee, Pickett, Pickens, Jones...)

And if a rebuild is off the table, the idea that some push for (tearing it down to the studs so we can tank to get a QB) is never ever going to happen intentionally with this Rooney (IMO any Rooney) in the owner's chair.

TLDR: I think Rooney wants to win a playoff game. But I think he feels like he needs for the team to avoid playing meaningless regular season games.

 

My take is that Rooney is stuck with a bit of dated belief in how the NFL works. For along time, you could make the playoffs and then who knows what could happen? The old to win, you have to get in first kind of idea. Not that long ago, the Steelers made a run to a SB championship out of either the lowest or next to lowest playoff seed at the time. In previous decades, this kind of thing happened a lot. It got cold somewhere in January and some fundamentally sound underdog knocked off a heavy favorite.

Unfortunately, for Rooney and the Steelers, this does not happen as frequently any more. There are a great many things a championship team has to have. But the recent thread is highly competent QB play. And the Steelers have not had that for almost a decade. Hard to win against other talented teams when you are at a disadvantage before the whistle blows.

 

IIRC, you're right that we were the first 6th seed to win the SB (I also think the Giants did it not long after we did).

And I agree with you're idea of how Rooney seems to be approaching the team.

But I guess I'm not sure it's so much that it's an old way of thinking...just that it doesn't fit where we are re: competitive window since we don't have a good QB (at least medium term...Rodgers is still probably averageish).

I think the "just make the playoffs and maybe you catch lightning in a bottle" method makes sense when you have an above average (E Manning) to elite (Ben) QB. Just get in. If the QB gets hot and your defense is peaking at the right time, then you can win it all.

But I don't think it works well without the QB.

Even in Cowher's day (when you could even get a top seed playing that way), it didn't "work" (if "working" is defined as winning the SB).

But if you don't have a QB, I think the main goal of the team should be "we need to find an average to above average QB". And I think trying to pick at 19 - 22 every year isn't the best way to do that.

But I also think there's great risk in going full tank mode. Because if you gut your team, you have no one for that QB to play with. So I don't mind keeping some of the less than ideal contracts we have. And I don't think we should trade any player we can who could get us a 3rd or better. But I also don't think we should be chasing old guys, pretending we're in "win now" mode.

Hopefully McCarthy / Kahn can navigate this better than Tomlin / Kahn did over the last few years. And turn the ship at least a little more toward medium term development. Especially if they can get us to a place where we have an above average offense without trashing the D.

 

You have summarized much of what I think about the team very well.

I wonder that if we take Glazer and Barber at their words and Tomlin knew this was his last year....maybe the vet contracts and all that were a final all in push on the "mediocre QB play but other talent and see what happens" mode of roster construction? Other than Ramsey, the team didn't make much of commitment to any of those guys so the timeline lines up.

I have no idea how a team that is able to stay fringe playoff competitive solves the QB puzzle. Few teams really ever successfully do that. Usually you have a random crappy season and fall bass ackwards into a QB (sound familiar?). Honestly, if it were my decision, I would keep trading draft picks and random veterans on my roster for everything I could in the next draft. Hopefully, one of these draft classes, you have enough ammo to move up and get a QB. Chiefs and Mahomes are most recent example. Eagles do it but just for DL and DBs....but same principle.

 

I think the most demonstrable example of the underdog overcoming the favorites you can point to the team having a plan on how they are going to approach winning those games. The 2005 run almost didn't happen if Kimo isn't blocked to the ground in front of Carson Palmer and hits his knee changing the game. They flipped the script against the Colts and let Ben sling it and jumped ahead. Against the Broncos it was Ben early and the defense getting after Jake the Snake. The SB was Ben's worse game of that run but by the that time Parker sets the record and Hines is locked in as SBMVP. Cowher had some idea what he wanted to do in those games.

i don't think Tomlin had any clue after the defeat in the superbowl. You look at every 1st round playoff game debacle since then and you see a team unprepared, outcoached, or simply straight up got there butts kicked. I can't point to a single game where I felt the Steelers were ready to shock the world let alone compete in a respectable manner.

 

End of the day there is no magic formula for making SBs . So You win what You can, when You can, and March forward.
Some people truly act like this is Madden, and nobody actually loses jobs, and careers. Nobody wants to lose, and if You think outside of a casual owner here ,or there they do, you are loopy. You are talking about people life's, careers, and families depending on it. This is not Madden where nobody is effected because of loses, and losing. It makes me actually laugh.

 

Hey it's just one season for a greater cause man
the formula they're everywhere

2 rockin tunes 1 ballad platinum

1 breakup song 1 summer reminiscent 1 patriotic CMA AWARD

 

Most new coaches go to bad teams, run by bad organizations. New hires are set up to fail. I'm surprised that the number is as high as 40%.

 

If a coach is worth his salt then he can win. Vrabel went to a bad NE team. Johnson went to a bad CHI team. Campbell went to a bad DET team. Coen went to a bad JAX team.

 

Who says it's the pizza capital of the US???
Is this a you thing, or is this from some real thing??

 

It’s regarded as having several of the best thin wood fired pizzas in the world. I have been to a few and they are outstanding.

 

Hmm
I didn't know this.
Thanks for the answer.