Apathy has taken over

I'm not sure that any OC / HC can do anything with the Kenny Picketts of the world.

And even with the good coaches, we generally have "with / without" type data.

Andy Reid is a good coach. But his success rate is much different with / without Mahomes (or even McNabb, who has the same number of Probowls and All Pros as Ben does).

Even BB, who I think is probably the GOAT (although I think this is more for his work as the GM than the HC). He wasn't good in CLE (who can be). He was the GOAT with Brady (and even did well when he got hurt). But when he went to TB, what happened?

I think K Shanahan is probably the best current example of a HC who succeeds with an average-ish QB. Although a big part of that is that they have surrounded him with elite talent (which will be a lot harder to afford as his cap hit jacks up with that new deal).

The Rats HCs have been pretty good at this before they got Lamar too...winning SBs with Dilfer (Billick) and Flacco (Harbaugh). But this is harder with the "new" economics of the NFL. Where the the ways to win are mostly (1) "have an above average QB on a rookie deal (or early in the 2nd deal where the cap hit is still low)" or (2) "have a generational talent at QB".

Ideally, you can stack (1) and (2) together (we would have been even better early in Ben's career if the rookie cap existed then). Which is what KC had with Mahomes. And then he signed a sweetheart deal with them because their generational QB hit his 2nd deal in the middle of the pandemic.

 

Pickett was terrible as QB no matter what but the steelers also gave him no chance with Matt Canada as OC.It was brutal as decision

Reid has been great with many QB,not just Mahomes or McNabb and he deserve credit for their development and also to draft them. Mahomes was a high-risk, high-reward prospect, so he needed coaching. He sat on the bench during his rookie season, and that helped him a lot, as he himself said a few years later.

McNabb wasn't a sure thing either...remember the Philly fans' reaction when the Eagles drafted him? He wasn't a popular pick, McNabb had a lot to learn, but Reid was great with him.

For Belichick,Brady was not Brady in his first 2-3 super bowl....Remember in 2001 when Brady had only 3 TD pass in the final 8 games including the playoffs?....The Pats still won those 8 games,including against the greatest show on turf in the super bowl despite 140 passing yards by Brady.....Belichick was the biggest reason in that win

 

Apologies I meant in this decade.

 

Most QBs aren't good in their rookie year.

Last year Maye was a rookie.
Last year Williams was a rookie.

Even the best QBs are almost never Ben in their rookie years. Particularly since very good QBs tend to get drafted very early to very ****ty teams.

Lawrence has been weird.

He's had very good stats most years, but not a ton of team success. They did win the South in 2022 (Pederson), but got worse in 2023 (2nd, but same record) and 2024 (4-13). Maybe Lawrence likes new HCs, but they get stale with him quickly? I hope they don't end up being consistently good...we don't need more good QBs in the AFC.

Some have talked about SF. Maybe this is a control of sorts because it's the same HC and the same QB. But teams that get destroyed by injury are usually not good.

Last year, CMac played in 4 games and has 200 yards rushing and 146 yards reveiving. This year, he played every game. Has 1202 rushing, 924 yards receiving. [Guess which year he was on my fantasy team!]. They had many other significant injuries throughout the year, including to Purdy and Kittle. Both missed little time but were consistently hobbled. Here's a reddit post from a 49ers sub looking at their injuries.

Coach and high end of the roster are mostly the same this year. Results are much different.

 

If you all want to plan to replicate the TWO exceptions in the Ravens and Broncos of the last quarter century- go ahead.

of course that’s exactly what the Steelers and Colts have been doing as well. How’s it been working?

planning to be the exception to the rule is a low percentage play.

 

But we should start Howard because Brady made it as 6th

 

I'm not arguing that Reid and BB aren't good coaches.

They're clearly among the best QBs of their generation.

But there's a massive difference between when they had the best QB of the generation (both playing under market) vs. when they didn't.

If we had to choose, I can't imagine any team (or fan) picking an elite HC over an elite QB. It's like in hockey how you'd always take an elite goalie over anything else.

These positions (QB, Goalie) are almost like the fictional "seeker" in Quiditch. It's not quite the same because the rest of the team does matter in real sports. But it's similar in that you'd sell anything on your team to get someone in these premium positions who could come in and give you consistently excellent play (the probably with goalies in hockey is that so few are consistent year to year).

 

We're just in this holding pattern until we find another QB. Rooney wants us to always be competitive for a playoff spot so we aren't out of the playoffs at the bye week (like a certain team from OH).

If you don't have a QB, this is about the best you can do.

And every strategy to get above average QBs has a low chance of success. Because so few humans have the processing speed to find the open man and get him the ball when playing at NFL speed.

I wouldn't be opposed to having some lean years to try to get a higher pick for a QB. But it's the opposite of the business model for this team.

 

I would like to extend the goalie analogy if I could.

sometimes a great or even average goalie goes on an absurd heater and just stand in his head for an entire playoff run. Drags their team to wins.

This was Flacco for the Ravens. The one SB he put up numbers in the playoffs on par with Montana. For 3 Sundays or so he was playing at a HOF level. All that with the caveat that if a Broncos DB hadn’t lost his mind, the Ravens would have been out.

 

I couldn’t agree with this more.

I wholeheartedly believe that with the QBs available; the Steelers have accomplished more than their peers.

 

Youi're fired!

 

I agree QB is most important that head coach but both are very impotant

 

You do have to have a QB with something.
We didn't even try with Pickett. That said, I think he's a career backup. Still a real fail on our part.
You have a reverse way of looking at it.
KC had a QB system built for Mahomes EB and Reid designed it. I do think they are slipping but Mahomes is still basically a great QB..
Jackson's offense is designed specifically for him. He's not going to be a pocket passer, he's terrible at it.
But absolutely, you must have at least an OC that designed and plays to the QB's strengths.
I think back to personal experience, Mark Rypien.
The guy was a mobile as a fire hydrant. But he had the most beautiful touch on passes, especially long passes... like John Brodie.
So they built a wall and designed the offense to fit him and the short of it, a MVP Super Bowl.

Square pegs don't fit into round holes.
Belichick and McDaniels buit that system to fit Brady... he operated like a master. He would have been a terrible run and gun QB.

If they want to do it different, that's fine. Just win,.

 

Do you consider Bo Nix as elite QB?

The broncos are 23-10 since last season...number one seed this year...Shanahan had a lot of success with Jimmy G too...very close to beat the chiefs in 2019 in the super bowl..Jimmy G was awful with the raiders

 

Anquon Boldin made life easy for him in the playoffs that year.

 

Dude by your own admission you weren't even watching football when D. McNabb was drafted. All this proves is what I've said many times. Most fans don't know $hit.

 

To be honest, I don't remember a Qb having a better playoff than Flacco did that year off the top of my head.

 

Yeah I know, I was actually watching that draft. Again more proof that a lot fans don't know $hit about football, and easily fall into mob mentality.

 

Did someone here mention COOKIES?

 

WOW
A manifest

 

This. If the Steelers were already eliminated, having them eliminate the Ravens alone, would be worth it. Enough rooting interest in that alone, for me.

 

Like your Avatar and caption. Hilarious.

 

This exactly.

 

Bo Nix is NOT an elite QB. But he is BETTER than what the Steelers have had a QB.

All respect to Aaron Rodgers (easily the best QB the Steelers have fielded since 2019) but Bo Nix is better than Rodgers right now. Not for their careers. Not for their knowledge of the game. But, right now, I would take Nix over Rodgers.

And just to be clear, I think that Bo Nix is not very good and am glad the Steelers passed on the opportunity to be limited by him for the next 5 years.

Same with Jimmy G. He is not all that good. But superior to what the Steelers have trotted out at QB.

I think the general inability of Steelers fans on the internet to acknowledge that the Steelers have been fielding bottom 5 QBs since about 2020 is astounding. And yes, I am including old man post injury Ben and old Rodgers in that statement.