hood

that may be true when he first got here elvis, but he's taken a lot of that extra weight off that would have served him better as a DT in a 4-3 as you say.

he's now transformed into a quicker player and is now working on the lateral agility that should serve him well in our system. a lot of that helps him get off blocks which is where he and cam struggle a little. his strength can work at either spot. what he lacks in length is what I think hurts him a little. that he'll have to make up in agility and he's working on it.

as long as he's improving every year, i'm fine with it. cam will also get his chance this year. they could be quite the front with mclendon.

the better the OLB'ers are playing the better the DE's will play and visa-versa.

 

I think there is quite a difference in his ability as a quick twitch guy off the ball into his gap (straight line quickness) and his quickness disengaging and moving up and down the line. he was covered as a DT and his quickness through a gap is not near the same as moving right to left after that initial push off the snap. that's what he's working on now. as he should. that's where his game was lacking.

 

I was talking strictly about the pass rush, and are you kidding? That's totally what the coaches would do. That's their MO all over.

 

what do you mean that's what they do? how is taking a guy that has twice the qb pressures as anyone on the defense off the field a better way to go? if cam was better he would be starting. they coach him every day, so i'm taking their word as to whom is the better player.

 

I'm guessing he's accusing the coaches of having some stupid veteran bias.

 

Yes. I agree they're usually right about stuff, but they have a well-known favoritism for experience compared to youth and potential. Cedrick Wilson over Santonio Holmes in '06, Tommy Maddox over Ben Roethlisberger in '04! I know those were not Tomlin, but he's continued the tradition. Clark Haggans over LaMarr Woodley in '07, Larry Foote over Lawrence Timmons in '08, Antwaan Randle El over Emmanuel Sanders and Antonio Brown (even on punt returns!) in '10. He barely went with All-Pro Maurkice Pouncey over unemployable Justin Hartwig. They are just so, so terrified of rookie mistakes that they will play veterans until they are completely useless, and once finally let go, are ignored by the rest of the league.

That's extreme compared to this situation, because there isn't a clear advantage from Cam over Keisel like there was from those other guys. But it's painfully obvious that the coaches are more than willing to keep superior players on the bench if there is a more experienced player ahead of him. If you really believe the coaches just put the best players out there and that's it, I don't know where you've been. Cam has flashed the potential to deserve more playing time. He's headed up while Brett's headed down. It's Keisel's spot they drafted him for. It's the 1st round pick's 3rd year and he hasn't done anything to warrant being a backup except be on the Steelers. I think it's worth seeing what happens when you put him on the field some.

And are you going to keep flashing Keisel's pressure stats, when Cam saw a quarter of the time Brett did? What are the stats when adjusted for playing time? Do you have those? And I'm not sure if you got them from PFF or not, but if you did, you should also know they had him as essentially the 2nd most overpaid Steeler last year (they valued his play at $1.5M, with a $5M cap hit). Technically he's the 4th most overpaid on the list, but two of those guys, Troy and Harrison, missed time and played hurt.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/02/26/performance-based-value-pittsburgh-steelers/

 

Ben didn't start because he didn't know the playbook. For crying out loud he's even talked about how if his first read wasn't open he would start running around(scrambling). There's not a coach(with a job) that's going to start a player that doesn't know the playbook. The same thing happened with Antonio Brown he was still having problems with the playbook and hot reads in his second season. Once he figured it out he passed Hines on the depth chart. Sanders passed ARE on the depth chart fairly early on in the season and was developing a rapport with Ben up until the injury during the SB. They barely started Pouncey? THat's just pure bs. They started him off at guard and center where he quickly passed Hartwig.

How many times have you heard Keisel, Troy P or numerous other members of the team talk about how they break a player down and they have to learn how to play the Steelers defense? It's not about veteran bias. It's about knowign your assignments until that happens you're a backup and learn. You can have all the athletic ability in the world, but if you don't know your assignments you're a liability.

 

I get it. I didn't say there was no logic behind it. And most times I don't mind bringing along young players the way they do. My point is that sometimes when you have a better player on the bench (Ben) than the one on the field (Maddox) you just have to deal with some playbook lapses. It's a trade. I bet Ben did make some mental errors that year. But he won 15 or 16 games, and Maddox wouldn't have gotten them to the playoffs. I'm not on here advocating for every rookie to get out on the field, but sometimes, like in the cases I mentioned, you need to sacrifice some known commodity for some good football plays. Santonio Holmes is really going to cost you games if you play him over Cedrick Wilson? Mistakes will happen, but this is Santonio Holmes vs. a #4. Get his ass out on the field!

About Pouncey, my point was that he was clearly better from the start (literally an All-Pro that year, and Hartwig couldn't even catch on anywhere after we cut him), and he didn't pass Hartwig until late in preseason. Tomlin made a big deal early on about saying he wouldn't start a rookie, and then eventually said something like, "Ok yeah well, this guy doesn't play like a rookie." He eventually made the right decision, but the fact is that it took an All-Pro performance to beat out a guy who didn't belong in the league, even as a backup. If Pouncey had merely been noticeably better than Hartwig instead of embarrassingly better, Hartwig would have started at center for us that year and Pouncey at guard, and we'd have been worse off for a number of reasons.

I believe Sanders passed ARE something like 10 weeks into the season, even though it seemed obvious it should have happened much earlier. Brown should have been returning punts, but they were scared to let a rookie back there, even though I don't think Brown had given them reason to worry, say by showing fumbling issues. ARE was one of the worst punt returners in the league by that point in his career, and Brown was one of the best, as we saw the next season.

Just seems like they sometimes take the wrong approach to what I consider low risk-high reward situations, and so of course they get no reward.

 

We have to hope and that is a big word that the Steeler coaches will PLAY the most talented players, not the most experienced.I like others, on this board have preached this theory for years,you have to wonder why other teams(Patriots) can start rookies and we can't.Other teams can play 2nd year players and we can't. Are our players improving? Ziggy Hood, Cam Heyward? Well? Player development? ART II has mentioned in years passed that he would like to see quicker development.

 

Well I guess that might work in some instances. Realistically though, if Shamarko Thomas came on and outperformed both Clark and Troy, does he get the start?

 

Is there anybody in there? THe Patriots had the 25th ranked defense while the Steelers were 1st. As they say the proof is in the pudding and that's pretty good freaking pudding. THe Steelers way of doing things works and works quite well as we're consistently at the top of the league defensively.

 

Maybe not the start, but definately significant playing time this year to prepare him for a starting role in 2014 rather than having to wait till 2015 to start.

IMO the price we are paying in waiting for most of the defensive players to start in their 3rd year, does help to explain the 57% (to 43% for the offense) in cap space being eaten up by the defense. The end result being a consistantly top ranked defense and a somewhat inconsistant offense, usually ranked somewhere in the teens.

 

Maddox may or may not have led us to the playoffs that year. You can say he wouldn't have, but it's pure speculation. And it's not based on fact since Maddox had led us to the playoffs in the past. Being that you don't have a crystal ball try sticking to things we know.

Tomlin never said he wouldn't start a rookie. He said he wouldn't just give him the job he has to earn it. Besides who gives a crap when Pouncey got the starting job during preseason. Once POuncey earned the job it was his. Preseason doesn't count for anything so the your claim of it wasn't until late in preseason doesn't mean jack. You blame TOmlin for giving ARE the punt return job over Brown when Brown was "clearly better". Do you remember early in his 2nd season when Brown was calling for fair catches inside the 5? Of course it's ok that he backed our offense up to our own goal line because there's a chance he might do something positive later. The Steelers are consistently vying for a spot in the playoffs and they do that by putting the best team on the field possible. It's certainly not by hoping that a rookie who doesn't know his job yet will make more positive plays than negative.

Wish in one hand, crap in the other and see which one fills up first.

 

Do you understand what I'm saying at all? The way you tell it, putting Antonio Brown in the game all but guarantees we start at our own 5, and I'm sitting here complaining that the coaches didn't start Alameda Ta'amu last season because he's got the most potential. I do remember Brown making bad decisions once or twice. I also remember ARE fumbling the ball once or twice. Mistakes happen. I'll say it again, sometimes it's a risk/reward situation where the reward greatly outweighs the risk.

It sounds like to you Antonio Brown shouldn't have been returning punts in his 2nd season because of the mistakes he made, and the potential he had to make more mistakes, and the chance that he might do something positive doesn't outweigh the chance that we'll start at our 5 yard line. I understand that, but I think I'm going to go with the way things happened, with Brown keeping the job anyway and making the Pro Bowl as a return specialist. Seriously, this is a perfect example. You're willing to sacrifice playing one of the best returners in the league because you're so afraid that he might make a bad fair catch! Sometimes you roll the dice that you'll get a bad fair catch if it means you're putting a significantly better player on the field. Hell, it's not even like he was learning a new craft. Brown was an All-American punt returner in college. He knew what he was doing.

About Maddox, you might be right. Maybe he would have won us 12 games that year, or maybe he'd have won them all, like Ben did. Hell, maybe if he hadn't been hurt he'd have won that game he was losing, and he'd have won those last two playoff games and we'd have gone 19-0. I think it's reasonable to assume he wouldn't have even made the playoffs, and I'm basing that on how he played in 2004, as well as in 2003 and 2005. Yes he had a Super Bowl team around him, but that just makes his poisonous play seem even worse. The way he could bring us down was pretty crazy. Regardless, the point is that Ben was much better, and the team was better off because the young talent with no experience played instead of the experienced vet. WAY better off. Depending on how you say it, it can sound pretty irresponsible to just throw a rookie out on the field who "doesn't know his job yet." But in some circumstances that is what's best for the team. I think Art Rooney II agrees with me. And he knows a little bit about the way the Steelers do things.

 

i'm more sold on heiward than hood , anyway our def line is suspect because lack a game changer , i will let hood walk at the end of the season and sign a good free agent .

 

Funny how they consistently seem to make the playoffs,I mentioned the Patriots only because their HC is not afraid to take chances on putting players out there that he
feels has more talent than his so called experienced players.There are plenty of other teams also (Seahawks). And when the owner of the team says that he would like to see players seeing action QUICKER, I think that says something, at least it should. Is there anyone in there?SMART ASS!

 

They win their division by default. That's how they are always in the playoffs! If we had 2 each with the Bills, Jests, and Fish, we'd be a lead-pipe lock for at least 12-4. Every year.

 

You have to expect a constant critique of Hoods play, after all he replaced Smith who was a solid performer at the DE position: So Hood has to at least match the lunch pail mentality Aaron brought to the line on every play, and so far he hasn't reached that level of consistency, and until he does he will be scrutinized by fans expecting him to elevate his game to Aarons level of play........

 

Young players generally see the field in small doses. I remember when people saw a young Troy on the field they quickly labeled him a bust. In an ideal world all draft picks would be created equal but that's not the case. For whatever reasons players develop at different paces. Players get more playing time when the coaches feel they are ready, it's a "players time", or when injuries happen.