Tomlin needs to go on fourth down more often

I love this thread.


'Tomlin needs to go for it more on 4th down!!!! BUT... only when I agree it's a good decision! And then if it doesn't work, it's because it was a terrible play call by Tomlin'.

 

I know it was his first year coaching. Even the lamest coach at any level should never go for 2 points from the 12 yards line with soooo much time left in the game. then he said he followed his gut instinct...

As for the SBs, those were simply because he inherited everything from Cowher. Tomlin is the most successful Barry Switzer of all time.

Anywho, that's what I think. Now cue in the Tomlin loving Troll club (I don't mean you NorthernBlitz).

 

Exactly. this is unwinnable if you want to appease the fan base.

 

I think there's a lot to be disappointed about post-2010. But I think Tomlin was pretty clearly in the 2nd tier of HCs from at least 2007 to 2010. With the first tier being a group of one guy with Billy B.

But I do think that Tomlin's approach to defense (his side of the ball) has become stagnant. Like Cowher, he will do his best work if he has very good to elite coordinators. IMO there is a reason that LeBeau was a part of all of our SB visits post-Noll. It's because we (reasonably IMO) hire HCs based on their ability to motivate players. Cowher and Tomlin are both better off with very good Xs and Os guys...and a HoF QB.

FWIW, I have always thought that Ben was more responsible for the successes and the failures since he's been on the team.

I personally don't like calling it inherited from Cowher. Because I believe Rooney's version of how we drafted Ben over what Cowher said (after Rooney died).

I think Cowher and Tomlin are essentially the same. If I was in charge of the HoF, I wouldn't have put Cowher in. And I wouldn't put Tomlin in either. I think the bar for non-players should be very, very high. And both of our post-Noll coaches belong in the "Hall of the Very Good" IMO, not the HoF.

 

Yes

We should be more like the Raiders and Browns

 

What about the current Lions,Eagles or chiefs?

All in the top 4

 

I'm not a fan of going for it on fourth down unless you're trailing in the fourth quarter. In the Vikings game the Steelers went for it on fourth down instead of kicking the FG, they failed and the Vikings got a long TD on busted coverage.

 

The play call on fourth down was bad.....

 

I agree on that Bengals game play. When your defense is struggling, you are down on points and there is not much left on the clock..... Why would you give it back to the other team? As you said, it somehow worked out, but everything pointed to that ending the game.

I don't see that as a genius coaching move. We just got very lucky IMO.

I also hate charts like this. They are subjective and not factual. They are meaningless data.

 

And that's why you should just kick the FG, I think they would've been up by 3 scores by kicking the FG.

 

They would been up only 27-14 with a FG...If it would been a TD it would been 31-14 steelers

 

Coaches that listen to the fans will soon to be joining them in the stands.

 

Think about it though. Because of who he is, he's extremely well paid and he'll end up being in the HOF and you want him to change his M.O.?

 

It's all subjective and depends on the situation. When the Steelers had a good D... punt the hell out of it... or kick the field goal on 4th down. Now that the D sucks... just go for it every time. Dan Campbell does this and the Lions are a good team with a decent, but nothing great defense. Go figure.

 

I agree big time. I wrote an article way in 2016 when people started complaining about Tomlin pointing out that few coaches in the NFL were better. Only Belichick truly was. Tomlin was in a group with other one-win Super Bowl coaches like Pete Carroll, Mike Holmgren, Mike McCarthy, Sean Payton, and John Harbaugh and in most cases had the advantage in non-losing seasons (obviously).

https://johnbaranowski.wordpress.co...eelers-head-coach-mike-tomlin-few-are-better/

Now, however, I wouldn't pick Tomlin as the second best coach in the NFL, would you? Andy Reid has accomplished the most and there are younger coaches that have won as many Super Bowls as Tomlin: Nick Sirianni and Sean McVay and then there's the old guard: Sean Payton, John Harbuagh and Pete Carroll.

I get the argument that Tomlin inherited a HOF franchise QB in Ben, and in the years without or mostly without Ben: 2019, 2022, 2023 and 2024, Tomlin went 37-30. It can argued Tomlin's a better coach with less talent and seems to underachieve when he has more talent.

 

I would still rather go for the FG there; too many bad things can happen on a 4th down call.

 

Didn't Campbell and the Lions lose a playoff game by repeatedly going for it on 4th downs.

 

Their defense gave up 3 TD,1 FG in the final 4 drives of the game

 

Need to trust Rodgers in this situation....He has the lowest interception rate in NFL history

 

The Lions only lost the game by 3 points. If they would have kicked FG's instead of keep failing on fourth down conversations while in FG range they could have won. The Lions were up 14 and in easy FG range that would have made it a 3 score game. Instead Campbell went for it and failed and the whole momentum of the game changed.

 

Time and place
For
Such decisions

 

It was a 48-49 yards FG both time,so it was not a gimme,not for a kicker who was out of the league after that until two weeks ago when he signed with the Colts because their kicker got injured.

I think Campbell had more faith in their offense in this fourth down and 2 situation than in his kicker, and I can't blame him, especially since the Lions had a lot of success all year on his fourth down and shorts situation, so he continued to stick with his winning formula... It didn't work that time, but it paid off so many times, and like I said, the Lions had a kicker who was out of a job the following season.

 

No. I don't even necessarily believe that he was the 2nd best HC back then. Just that there wasn't really a great argument for others in a similar tier (like those you listed).

He gets the benefit of there not being a Billy B these days. But Reid has taken that crown. Unsurprisingly, the HC with a QB that's head and shoulders above everyone else that plays way below market value is again obviously the best HC in the league.

I think Tomlin is still an above average coach. We've been making chicken salad out of the play we've had at QB since Ben got hurt.

I do think that he's still above average to elite at motivating players. He hasn't had a team quit despite having some pretty bad teams (especially QB play) recently. I think that's what's gotten us into the playoffs a couple times when teams I thought were better ended up missing the tournament.

But if he's still in the 2nd tier (and he's probably a tier below that now), it's because that tier has gotten bigger with little difference between most other above average HCs. But as I said in another post upthread, I think Tomlin has become stagnant on D. Seems like most teams say they know what we're going to play and that our terminology is the same as it has been for a long while.

We need very good coordinators for Tomlin to thrive. Just like Cowher. I think our best / most innovative D (post-LeBeau) was when we brought in Flores. That's the kind of DC I think we need re: creativity. Just like Tomlin and Cowher both had their best defenses with LeBeau even though they were both defensive guys (certainly having Troy and co was a big part of this).

Not sure if I'm in the minority or not, but I think Smith is a good OC for us. But I wish the team would get serious about getting (and / or not giving away) a legit WR2 in the offseasons.

 

Goes back to Cowher ball when people would talk about him playing to not lose instead of playing to win. Tomlin has no fight in him as far as keeping the foot on their opponents throat.