had a pretty good debate

remember franco put up those numbers with less games per season. and you said it franco had alot of other players on that team so his touches were limited. so that makes it even more impressive. I also remember jerome running out of bounds on alot of runs.

 

MEAN JOE GREENE!!!
Oh... did you only mean OFFENSE?!?
Yeah, after thinking for a few minutes, nobody better than the ORIGINAL "Iron Mike", comes to mind...

 

oh yeah, I ment oline. your right no sense debating greene. he was and will always be the best lineman we have had

 

Yes, this is a good debate, with the exception of Pouncey, and only because he`s just in his second year, those are pretty awesome pairs of players at their positions!!!

I would stick with Bradshaw, just knowing some of the decisions Ben`s made off the field...

Hate to pick between them, but I would have to go with Stallworth, because of his downfield threat( no one tougher, or plays with more heart, than Hines though, and I LOVE his blocking)...

Donnie Shell over Troy, only because I know Troy`s injury history, now...

Webster, no doubt, although Pouncey has a good chance to make his case over the next several years...

Lambert is my hero! I think Harrison is the second coming of him, but won`t have as many years on the field...

Lloyd over Woodley... For his mean streak, and overall skill level!

Do I really HAVE to choose Franco/Bettis?!?

I hate to diss the guy who made "The Immaculate Reception".... But.... Bettis could just flat out overpower EVERYONE!!
Even when they knew he was coming, I can`t imagine how many games we won, simply because we got the lead, then ran them over with the Bus!!(Although a great point was made earlier, about what we would think of him, if Ben hadn`t made "The Tackle")...

Another thing I didn`t pay attention to as I was picking this list, is if you were drafting them to play nowadays, or when they played... It does make a difference. I was pretty much thinking of them each in their own era...

 

I remember hearing that Kolb could bench press 550 Pounds but he might have been one of the guys on juice.

 

Franco was anyhting but soft. He didn't take stupid hits but he enforced his way on the field.

 

Dirt (Dawson) may have been the best of all of them. At worst, he was a close second to Web. Pouncey is very talented and may someday be in the conversation, but I would put Jeff Hartings ahead of him at this point.

 

I always laugh whenever anyone says Franco was soft for running out of bounds. He could run you over. He could pound it in the middle all day long.

By going out of bounds now and then rather than taking yet another hit, he probably extended his career a good 5 years. 70s football was nothing like today. Neither was medicine.

Edit:

And the Webster vs. Pouncey question is silly as Pouncey has no resume yet. A better question would have been Webster vs. Dawson. THAT is a tough call. for sheer toughness, I'd still go with Webster.[/quote:2m9lngit]
i AGREE that extended his career a good 5 years. and that 70s football was nothing like today but he was still soft Swann would go up make the tough catch get hit by Tatum come down on his head and get back up and do it again while Franco would run out of bands there is a reason to this day at the combine they call a player who doesnt like to get hit a Franco!

 

I always laugh whenever anyone says Franco was soft for running out of bounds. He could run you over. He could pound it in the middle all day long.


By going out of bounds now and then rather than taking yet another hit, he probably extended his career a good 5 years. 70s football was nothing like today. Neither was medicine.

Edit:

And the Webster vs. Pouncey question is silly as Pouncey has no resume yet. A better question would have been Webster vs. Dawson. THAT is a tough call. for sheer toughness, I'd still go with Webster.[/quote:1q09iq6n]
i AGREE that extended his career a good 5 years. and that 70s football was nothing like today but he was still soft Swann would go up make the tough catch get hit by Tatum come down on his head and get back up and do it again while Franco would run out of bands there is a reason to this day at the combine they call a player who doesnt like to get hit a Franco![/quote:1q09iq6n]

I see players run out of bounds every week. There's a difference between being smart and being soft, Franco ran over plenty of people.[/quote:1q09iq6n]
so if Swann would have played just smart and not just tough he would have had a longer carree but he wouldnt have been as great as he was and kids wouldnt have grew up wanting to be swann doing Swann catches! and we might not have won as many Bowls! i like Franco dont get me wrong but he was soft reason he caught the immaculate reception is because he was half assing just jogging down field and it bounced right too him i bring this up because some bought up the Bettis fumble how would Bus be thought of if Ben didnt make the tackle? well how would Franco be thought of if he didnt catch that pass?

 

ben or terry - I'd take Terry won 4 Super Bowls also the MVP which Ben has not accomplished yet, also Terry in HOF
hines or stallworth - Stallworth in HOF and had a great career, member of four Super Bowl winning team
shell or troy - Shell because on 4 Sper Bowl winning teams, also was not injury prone, should be in HOF
webster or pouncey - Webster, none will ever be better, 4 Super Bowl winners, in HOF
woodson or blount - Hard one but Blount was my man, changed the way the game was played, in HOF Woodson also great. I take both
harrison or lambert - Lambert, the face of the Steelers, need I say more
greg loydd or woodley - Lloyd, hands down. The master of disaster
jerome or francosteel1031 - Probably Franco, in HOF and almost broke Jiom Browns record, on 4 Super Bowl winning teams.

Most of the defense of the four winning Super Bowls should be in the HOF. LC Greenwood should be in, Dwight White should be in.
Who is left, J. T. Smith CB, Mike Wagner FS, Donnie Shell SS, Ernie Fats Holmes DT, Andy Russell LB, Robin Cole LB. Who shold make it out of this crew?

 

I always laugh whenever anyone says Franco was soft for running out of bounds. He could run you over. He could pound it in the middle all day long.


By going out of bounds now and then rather than taking yet another hit, he probably extended his career a good 5 years. 70s football was nothing like today. Neither was medicine.

Edit:

And the Webster vs. Pouncey question is silly as Pouncey has no resume yet. A better question would have been Webster vs. Dawson. THAT is a tough call. for sheer toughness, I'd still go with Webster.[/quote:10h5y9en]
i AGREE that extended his career a good 5 years. and that 70s football was nothing like today but he was still soft Swann would go up make the tough catch get hit by Tatum come down on his head and get back up and do it again while Franco would run out of bands there is a reason to this day at the combine they call a player who doesnt like to get hit a Franco![/quote:10h5y9en]

I see players run out of bounds every week. There's a difference between being smart and being soft, Franco ran over plenty of people.[/quote:10h5y9en]
so if Swann would have played just smart and not just tough he would have had a longer carree but he wouldnt have been as great as he was and kids wouldnt have grew up wanting to be swann doing Swann catches! and we might not have won as many Bowls! i like Franco dont get me wrong but he was soft reason he caught the immaculate reception is because he was half assing just jogging down field and it bounced right too him i bring this up because some bought up the Bettis fumble how would Bus be thought of if Ben didnt make the tackle? well how would Franco be thought of if he didnt catch that pass?[/quote:10h5y9en]

How did this get into a Swann vs Franco debate? No ones questioning Swanns toughness. You're comparing apples and oranges anyway. Those acrobatic catches Swann made were for big gains, they were catches that needed to be made. What was Franco really sacrificing by running out of bounds? A half of yard? Big deal. And I'll say it again, Franco ran over plenty of people and every week I watch players run out of bounds. Are they all soft?[/quote:10h5y9en]
not a Swann vs Franco debate just used Swann as a Ex of some one who woild do anything to win would do any thing to make a catch even give up his body and cut his time in the NFL by 5 or more years! where as Franco wouldnt he would go out of bounds! which was smarter? who is to say im just saying one was tough Swann do anything for a catch and a yard while the other Franco was softer and wouldnt!

 

anyone who callls franco harris soft never saw him play. I am not saying jerome is not a good back but franco had just as much power and more speed. he never ran away from contact

 

I'm not sure but the number of yards gained through the passing game was probably greater during Bettis' playoff career. Not really fair to compare playoff stats for two players who were surrounded by different personnel and played against different opponents in different eras under different rules.

 

I pretty much agree with other posters re: pouncey. Just to early to tell. Dawson vs Webster is the better debate.

 

ben or terry BEN - His ability to extend a play, mobility, strength make him a better choice even before you look at interception rate.hines or stallworth Stallworth - This was a tough one. Stallworth's ability to make that miracle catch is what seperates them for me.
shell or troy Troy - His ability to play sideline to sideline and on the line in a blitz is just freakish.
webster or pouncey Webster - Puncey may turn out to be better, but not yet
woodson or blount Woodson - In my opinion the best all around athlete the Steelers have ever had on the team.
harrison or lambert Lambert - That was one mean SOB I know Harrison is tough, but Lambert took it to a whole new level.
greg loydd or woodley Lloyd - woodley is good, but he is not the game changer Lloyd was.
jerome or franco No Vote they are equal in my book.

 

For the record, I'm in my 20s. I've seen some games from the 70s and have done some research, but nothing compared to anyone who was actually there. This is based on hunches and feelings.


ben or terry -- Bradshaw. Ben still has room to improve and could catch him, but hasn't yet. I am hoping for a mid-career renaissance with Ben, in which he becomes quicker with the ball and more protective of his body.

hines or stallworth -- Hines. In his prime, too special to pass up. Stallworth may have actually been a better receiver, but I want a guy like Hines on my team. If I was building a team from scratch and could have 4 receivers, I would have to pass over 20 "better receivers" because I would need to have Hines on that team.

shell or troy -- Troy! This is the easiest selection for me of them all. I'm not saying he's the best player I've ever seen, but I've never seen a player like him. He starts on my All-Time team.

webster or pouncey -- Dawson!! Webster. Pouncey's only played like 25 games in his career. We should revisit this in 8 years. Pouncey could wind up the best Center or O-lineman of the coming decade.

woodson or blount -- Blount. He was as good after the rule change as he was before. He didn't let it ruin him, and that is amazing to me. He was a Hall of Famer in both styles of play. Rod was great, but gotta go with Melly.

harrison or lambert -- Hadn't occurred to me before, but is it fair to say Harrison is the modern day Lambert, or as close to it as possible? Not only the best LB in the league (at least for a time, if not now), but also THE toughest and THE biggest badass, and all within the rules of the game.

greg loydd or woodley -- Woodley. Finally one where I was around for both. I could never stand Lloyd's attitude and Woodley is just getting better.

jerome or franco -- Franco, I suppose. He's one I really don't know enough about, but if I had Jerome I'd feel the need to have another back to complement him. If I had one, then maybe I'd go with Bettis.


I picked 3 new guys and 4 old guys. You may have noticed I didn't decide between Harrison and Lambert. For them, there is no "toughest attitude" tiebreaker. They played very different positions. I think most people would take Lambert in a slam dunk, but I've said before Harrison is the best OLB I've ever seen. As much press and awards as he's gotten, I think he's still underrated. He's a complete player. He's excellent in pass coverage, and that's the "weakest" part of his game. He's dominant against the run, and a dominant pass rusher. He finishes near the top of the league in sacks every year, with only half as many rushes as those that have more (Ware, Allen... guys like that rush every play, whereas Harrison spends half his time in coverage). He cannot be blocked by any number of backs or tight ends, and requires a LT, usually with help from a running back or a referee. The only bad thing about him is that he didn't really "get it" until his late 20s, and thus will have a much shorter career than what could've been. But if you're picking a single point in time and not a whole career, I think you have to go with Harrison. Then again, I don't really know.

 

Bettis ran out of bounds all the time! They all do. You're soft if you do it with 5 yards to spare, or if it's 3rd down in a playoff game and you step out rather than take the hit for the first. But a franchise running back with a career on the line? A career not only important to him but also the rest of the team and their fans? And you want him to take an extra 4 hits per game for an extra 4 meaningless yards? That could result in injury, a shorter season, a shorter career, or a messed up post-football life. Maybe you wanted Franco's career to end 5 years sooner, like you say?

Even as far a given football game goes, anyone will tell you that some yards matter more than others. If you break a 40 yard run from your own 1 yard line, what's the difference between being stopped at the 41 yard line or the 42 yard line? None. It's a first down either way. If you break a 9 yard run on 3rd and 10, it matters and you put your head down and get that first. Let me know when you saw Harris wuss out rather than help his team.

 

Seriously, did you ever see Bettis play? I saw him run out of bounds with 5 yards to spare after a first down. He didn't just do it, he did it routinely.