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People are freaking out over Kaleb Johnson's slow start

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by steelersrule6, Aug 14, 2025.

  1. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Put him behind the Eagles OL I bet those stats would look a lot better ;).
     
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  2. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Seriously, y'all need to look up the Butterfly Effect. I don't mean the movie. I mean the concept.
     
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  3. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Im a happy camper

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    First you blamed the OL

    Now you are blaming Warren
     
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  4. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Really don’t know how that apples to this. The butterfly effect doesn’t imply Harris wouldn’t have gotten hurt anyway.

    It was the offseason and he was home celebrating the 4th of July, being on the Steelers still wouldnt have changed that because he would have been home anyway doing the same thing.
     
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  5. Born2Steel

    Born2Steel Well-Known Member

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    Ok. Since I understand what the butterfly effect is, what is your meaning?
     
  6. Steelpens65

    Steelpens65 Well-Known Member

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    Damn Tomlin
     
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  7. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    You suck at applying outliers actually. Trying to compare different eras to make Harris look better, cute.

    Can you point me to the seasons Harris had near 5ypc?

    Using Bettis as an example to boost Harris up was egregious no matter how you try to spin it.
     
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  8. SGSteeler

    SGSteeler Well-Known Member

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    That is one way to look at it. But the passing game sucked equally for Warren and he's done much better.

    I know some people think Warren was a 3rd down back (which, isn't true) and therefore got better looks to run into. But the reality is that he gets around 9% of his runs on 3rd down. Najee is 4%, but over the course of 3 years that is a very small number. Assuming last year's numbers were pretty typical (I am sure Najee got more work in 2021 on 3rd down while Warren was still in college).... But when you correlate that percentage over their careers, Najee would have more total carries on 3rd down than Warren in their careers (Najee - .04 x 1097 = 44, Warren - .09 x 346 = 31).

    There are a lot of assumptions that can be made, but my opinion is pretty largely based on numbers and facts (and a little bit of eye test stuff). Najee is a beast 3 games a year. No doubt. They often come a couple games in a row too. Outside of that, he essentially is a complete non-factor. Warren flashed quite often, but we spent a first round pick on Najee and Warren was undrafted. That is the reality. I am just glad we get to see Warren have a crack at the lion's share this year. I think he's earned it, and I expect him to do fairly well with it.
     
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  9. SGSteeler

    SGSteeler Well-Known Member

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    My like for Warren's game and distaste for Najee's are completely separate from one another. Some of it is just not liking the fit of a 240 lb+ back in the modern offense... There's a reason that guys that big tend not to work out in the NFL like they did 20-25 years ago. The main reason being that modern offenses leverage RB/LB matchups that are very slanted towards the modern RB. I don't care as much about the 8 man box thing. If you're a good back, you can overcome it. Derrick Henry ran it 97 times into 8+ man boxes through the first 9 games last year (more than double the next closest back) and had a 5.9 ypc, 10 TD's, and 11 runs of over 10 yards. It just means that when teams stacked the box against Henry they lost and when they stacked it against Harris they won.

    There were two misses by our FO when drafting Harris... The first was that we assumed Najee's solid 40 time was due to his explosiveness. He dropped some weight, put on a good time, and then went back to being that big plodder that he was in college. It was sad to see someone like Derrick Henry still have that outside burst and house-call ability at 30 when Najee basically came up lame breaking a run outside last season and blamed it on a "fire Thanksgiving dinner" at 26. Like, I seriously thought he got injured. It was one of the wildest NFL RB reps I've ever seen. The second was that we got Richardson'ed. Now, I'm not saying he sucks as bad as Trent Richardson (he is much better than that), but what I am saying is that we got to see a big Alabama RB run behind the craziest OL in college and put up big numbers. We had no idea if it was because Najee was good or if it was on the team around him. It turns out that it was the blocking, because Najee's runner's vision was quite poor. Not "I might actually be blind" bad like Richardson was... but it was bad. We had no way of knowing in the vetting process because such a high percentage of his plays were blocked with lanes big enough to drive the team vans through.

    I get what you're saying about the bad offense/OC/QB thing. I'm sure he would do better per touch in a better offense, but I think he just touches the ball way less in a good offense. He might get a David Montgomery role in Detroit, but he's just not dynamic enough as a player to get the high volume of touches he got in the Steelers offense the past couple of years. The better offenses just don't utilize power runners as much. They have a niche, but they aren't featured anywhere outside of Baltimore right now. Side note: I like the potential of Derrick Harmon, but after seeing a bit of the Pats preseason games, I am so unbelievably sad that Treyveon Henderson is not a Steeler. I would have drafted him at our first round selection 100 times out of 100 if I were GM in April. THAT is what a modern back looks like. Just big enough to run it inside, twitchy, elusive, and a winner in the pass game. He's going to be a stud I think. Henderson, Jahmyr Gibbs, and Chase Brown are probably my favorite backs in terms of overall skillsets. That is the type of player we need. I hope Warren can be what we need him to be this season.
     
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  10. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly what the theory implies because even the smallest change in the past would create huge changes in the present. He could have gotten a text from a teammate that kept him from it, or even a phone call hours earlier that changed the timing and led to him avoiding the accident. Or he could have been hit by a bus because he crossed the street 10 minutes earlier or later.

    You seem to be more concerned with making things fit your opinion on what the Steelers should have done than you are with properly applying the theory. That he suffered a freak injury does not make the Steelers right.
     
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  11. steel machine

    steel machine Well-Known Member

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    I was trying to figure it out too. Loved the movie.
     
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  12. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    We don't know how dynamic he could have been in a good offense. You are just making an assumption that fits your opinion of Harris.
     
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  13. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    You’re the one making up what ifs scenarios to fit your narrative rather than accepting the much more likelihood that Harris would have been home celebrating the 4th of July anyway. Thats what you always do though, make up scenarios like the Steelers leaking info to make players look bad because you don’t like the reality.
     
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  14. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I'm not impressed by a backup RB who gets 5-8 carries a game, it's not the same as being RB1.
     
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  15. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    A more accurate synopsis is the 346 carries he has for nearly 5 ypc.

    Ya’ll should try supporting the player on the team instead of carrying water for the guy no longer here.
     
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  16. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    I like how you leave out the fact that Henry also plays with the most dangerous QB who is a running threat, Harris never missed a game in 4 years but you're complaining because he didn't feel right physically after one run :facepalm:.
     
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  17. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    I can guarantee you Warren won't be averaging 5 YPC as RB1.
     
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  18. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Im a happy camper

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    I liked Harris but it’s his own fault he is where he is

    He talked himself out of Pittsburgh starting back when Saquon was looking for his big payday

    Omar got rid of the attitude
     
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  19. Steelersfan43

    Steelersfan43 Well-Known Member

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    The eagles don't win the super bowl last season with Harris instead of Barkley,this is for sure!
     
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  20. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    With that OL Harris could probably get 1,200-1,300 yards without the long runs Barkley got.
     
  21. Steelersfan43

    Steelersfan43 Well-Known Member

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    So,700 rushing yards less that Barkley.....
     
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  22. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Barkley runs like a 4.3 who cares they're different type of RBs.
     
  23. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Ones great and the other isn’t.
     
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  24. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Im a happy camper

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    So you are saying with a good OL he still wouldn’t have gotten long runs

    Hmm
     
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  25. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Man you , and everyone should stop this for freaking sure crap. Its stupid. Nobody, and I mean nobody knows for sure anything. If you say I don't think it would have happened, that's one thing. I personally don't think it would have happened, but I don't know for sure.
     
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