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Tomlin intended to retain Amos Jones. No really, I'm serious.

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by JackAttack 5958, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    I don't necessarily think that Tomlin is a bad HC but he does have some deficiencies that, if not addressed, could be problematic for him and the team going forward. Indecisiveness, inconsistency, poor clock management, poor in-game decision making, poor pre-game preparation and failure to make adequate in-game adjustments have all become all too common under Tomlin's leadership. Being unprepared for games with inferior opponents is another hallmark of Tomlin's career, and not just this year but in prior years. As the leadership vacuum continues to expand among the player ranks, we'll see what Tomlin is capable of in the years ahead. I'm just not convinced at this point that Tomlin has what it takes to get the job done, especially when you read that he is willing to accept failure by keeping assistant coaches and coordinators that are heading up underperforming units. Has the "standard" that Tomlin speaks so brazenly about become mediocrity?

    Ask yourself these two questions:
    1) Have Ben and LeBeau compensated for some of Tomlin's weaknesses over the years?
    2) Was the reason the Rooneys pushed so hard for the hiring of Todd Haley was to have a "head coach" of the offense much like they have a "head coach" of the defense in DL?

    Something to think about.
     
  2. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    With all that said it says he is a bad HC. He wasn't what we thought he was!
     
  3. antennaman1969

    antennaman1969 Well-Known Member

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    Who are they going to replace the coordinators with? US??:shrug: The talent pool of people who would actually come here(not named Russ Grimm or Ken Whisenhunt) and do well with this talent pool is probably pretty small.

    As for replacing them, or Tomlin, they are caught in the middle-maintain consistency, or cave in to firing a scapegoat.
     
  4. Iowasteeljim

    Iowasteeljim

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    You don't think he is necessarily a bad HC, though? What is left for you to praise about him? He does a good job of brushing his teeth? He always wears clean underwear? He holds the door open for his wife when they go out? Just wondering...
     
  5. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    I guess I should have phrased it this way: I don't necessarily think the book has been completely written on Tomlin's coaching legacy at this point. I'm willing to give him some credit, he has been to two Super Bowls and won one. He's had a near elite QB and one of the best DCs in history to lean on and I do believe they may have compensated for some of Tomlin's shortcomings. But that's okay, everyone has shortcomings and the smart head coaches figure out what those are and surround themselves with people to compensate for those. As Tomlin likes to say, there is enough on tape for there to be some concern about his coaching ability and I listed those above.

    Having said all of that, I believe Tomlin has a great opportunity over the next couple of years to PROVE that he is a quality head coach. He's got some work to do. The Steelers have lost some outstanding leaders over the last couple of years and may lose one or two more this off season. The really good head coaches figure out how to fill that void and move ahead without missing a beat. The book on Tomlin's coaching legacy is incomplete at this point but I'm willing to continue turning the pages to see how it ends.
     
  6. Iowasteeljim

    Iowasteeljim

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    I was just messing with you Jack. I knew what you meant but I appreciate the explanation that you provided!
     
  7. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    How much time do give him Jack? Jim harbaugh and others have executed right out of the gate! I agree he needs to prove himself now that we are a mediocre team. I'd give next year and the next one but some how I don't feel good about it. I hope I'm wrong on this.
     
  8. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Pretty sure it's a very short list of coaches who won a SB quicker then Tomlin. And I Know no one has ever won a SB with a mediocre team so really don't get that point which I have seen several members make. Not that I believe we are mediocre but just that statement is flawed, you need talent to win, nobody is winning with a scrub team. It's like you guys set the bar higher for Tomlin then anyone else. "Well when Tomlin wins with a team like the Browns, then I'll admit he's a good coach". Show me any coach that could win with Cleveland? By the way, Belichick didn't win in Cleveland either. Might not be able to use them as an example much longer, I actually think they will have a pretty good team soon but you get the point.
     
  9. blountforcetrauma

    blountforcetrauma Well-Known Member

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    I would consider the last two giants teams that won to be the most mediocre team in a while. I mean last year they were 9-7 which is the worst record ever. Probably since the Ravens of 2000 really. I mean they had a great D but as an offense they were not that good. I mean they traded their dang qb before the start of the next season! That's just crazy to think that could even happen.
     
  10. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    The Giants had very good defenses and as clutch a QB you can find these days, that means they are not mediocre. No team wins a SB without being very efficient at something. The Ravens had a mediocre offense but *gag me* one of the best defenses to ever play the game. You need talent to win.
     
  11. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    But think about what Harbaugh has managed to do the last couple of years with essentially the same team that Mike Singletary had. Alex Smith appeared to be destined to be a first round bust under Singletary and then along comes Harbaugh and revitalized Smith's career. And remember how Singletary mishandled Vernon Davis sending him to the locker room mid-game and keeping him in the doghouse for most of the time he was there. Vernon Davis is a beast and Harbaugh has managed to get the most out of the guy and he's now one of the top TEs in the game.

    Let's compare Singletary to Tomlin. Tomlin's mishandling of the running back situation, most notably Rashard Mendenhall, has some parallels with how Singletary handled Davis. Tomlin's stubbornness was disastrous for our running game this year. He overreacted in some cases and appeared to be wanting to show the RBs who the boss was while giving other underperformers a pass, much like Singletary did. And Tomlin has an (almost) elite QB in Ben and the league's number one defense but could only manage an 8-8 record? I know Ben was injured but the Steelers lost several games that he played in because they were unprepared. THAT comes down to coaching!

    My point is that some coaches know how to get the most out of the players on the roster. They are kind of like a master chef that knows how to put a bunch of individual ingredients together to craft a 5 star meal. I'm just not sure Tomlin knows how to get the most out of the talent at his disposal. I guess the jury is still out at this point but they are deliberating and will be rendering a verdict real soon.
     
  12. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Singleton never won anything, how can he be compared to Tomlin? Tomlin is also coming off back to back 12-4 seasons, teams have down years, it happens. I think you are arguing my case though. I don't think anyone can deny the 49ers have a very good team yet Singletary couldn't win with them. One of the arguments against Tomlin is he was handed a good team and won with them. So if both Tomlin and Singletary had good teams, why did Singletary do so poorly? Tomlin kills him in the win/loss column.
     
  13. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    What I'm saying is that there are some similarities in how Singletary handled Vernon Davis and how Tomlin handled Mendenhall (and Dwyer and Redman), with a blind stubbornness that does more harm than good. IMHO, Tomlin's success in Pittsburgh has as much to do with Ben and DL as it does to his own coaching abilities. I really believe that some of Tomlin's deficiencies have been covered up by an (almost) elite QB and an all-time great DC. I'm really not trying to take anything away from Tomlin. I'll give him credit for helping to get the team to two Super Bowls and winning one. But let's not forget, George Siefert and Barry Switzer won Super Bowls too and I don't think anyone would consider them great coaches. I'm just starting to have some serious concerns about Tomlin after reflecting on his overall body of work to this point in his career.
     
  14. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Nah, I disagree, I think his body of work has been great so far. And how would you have liked him to handle Mendy? I mean we can only base our decisions on what we are told and we were told that Mendy's preparation was lacking, which means he wasn't putting in the work. So if Dwyer and Redman are busting their ass and know the game plan better, what's Tomlin to do? Then you throw in the game that Mendenhall failed to go to, should they have let that slide too? Also, don't forget, all 3 backs were hurt at various points this season.

    I don't think Tomlin is perfect, I think he is loyal to a fault, I don't think he has the stones to make necessary coaching changes and clock management is bad but you don't get to 2 SB's in this league by not being a good coach. We'll see how they bounce back from an 8-8 season.
     
  15. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    We basically agree about Tomlin's deficiencies then. These are all qualities that could indicate that he doesn't have what it takes to be an effective NFL head coach. And while I agree with the one game suspension of Mendy for not showing up on game day, I do believe that he as the HC (not Todd Haley) botched his handling of the running game this year.

    Tomlin is entering the crossroads of his coaching career. His legacy will be determined in the next couple of seasons.
     

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