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We are primed to switch back to 4-3

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Blast Furnace, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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  2. turkeysniper

    turkeysniper Well-Known Member

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    i think one of the more interesting arguments i've heard for switching is value for pick. when we were one of the only 3-4 defenses around tweeners slid farther in the draft. now tweeners are quite in vogue. still not sold on the switch unless we're cleaning house more than i think.
     
  3. SteelByDesign

    SteelByDesign Well-Known Member

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    That article certainly makes a good case. I think the guy that would've struggled the MOST with a transition to 4-3 is James Harrison, who may be done with us. It could make Heyward and Ziggy stars...

    However I'd have serious doubts about 2/3 of our linebackers counting on Spence and Worilds. It also would never happen under Dick Lebeau.
     
  4. bigsteelerfaninky

    bigsteelerfaninky Well-Known Member

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    i think the D did ok this year so I'm ok with staying in the 3-4
     
  5. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Yep, that's very true, we don't get the pick of the crop anymore. But who else do you think needs to go besides those mentioned in the article? Just curious.
     
  6. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    After reading Colberts comments, I think JH is gone, I thought maybe he'd stick around one more year but now, probably gone. I don't know what to expect out of Spence, that was a severe injury but I was liking what I was seeing from Worilds. I agree about Heyward and Hood.
     
  7. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    i actually think Harrison might be ok at MLB . I recall Cowher saying he was a better middle than a outside when he was the coach. I know it's been a while but I think he could do it. He probably only has a couple years left in him anyway. Just something to consider.
     
  8. turkeysniper

    turkeysniper Well-Known Member

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    it's not necessarily who i think needs to go but we've only talked about starters. all of our backups are tweeners at OLB. thats a lot to sort out. also i think timmons stays in the middle or moves to the strong side covering tight ends with spence a better fit on the weakside. not real sure about who the third backer is or where the depth comes from, might not be on the roster.
     
  9. gpguy

    gpguy Well-Known Member

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    In a way I've always thought why not be able to switch from 3-4 to 4-3 depending on the play/down/etc?!?! However the bad thing now about more teams doing more no huddle and faster paced/etc...that may not work AS good anymore (not having time to sub players/etc). Theres always going to be the debate about this team moving to the 4-3...in my eyes it would look something like...(I'm including current FA/UFA's in this too just for discussions sake)

    DE - Wood, Heyward (for certain plays), Worilds could possibly play here some too as he was a DE in college, McLendon could play some DE too I think,
    DT - Hood, McLendon, Ta'Amu, Heyward, Woods, Fangupo
    OLB - Timmons, Worilds, B. Johnson, Carter, Sylvester (was a college OLB)
    MLB - Spence, Carter (I think he could play MLB just fine), Sylvester

    In reality in a 4-3, re-signing either Johnson or Sylvester would be important for at least depth. And besides S I would think DE would be the biggest need in a move to the 4-3...DEPENDING on where exactly Heyward would fit. If he can be a DE in a 4-3 then the need isnt there...I see him more of a DT in a 4-3 with the ability to play some DE if needed. The next need after that could be MLB.
     
  10. freakfontana

    freakfontana

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    as of now leabau is staying ,do you think he would make the switch ?
     
  11. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe the Steelers have the push rushing DE's on the roster to make the 4-3 work.
     
  12. Kevin James

    Kevin James Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I don't see it happening while he is still here. I bet Tomlin would like to though.
     
  13. turkeysniper

    turkeysniper Well-Known Member

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    mentioning lebeau, what did he play in with the lions? we view him as an exclusive 3-4 guy but i'm sure he is pretty knowledgeable in 4-3 as well. as to GP, we may actually have pretty good roster for some sort of hybrid system especially in nickel situations where we drop the nose out. for the record i thought spence was a will at miami.
     
  14. blountforcetrauma

    blountforcetrauma Well-Known Member

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    I also like Worilds. How would McLendon do in this system? If Casey goes I would almost be money that McLendon is his replacement. Wouldn't you?
     
  15. blountforcetrauma

    blountforcetrauma Well-Known Member

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    Timmons was a product of the 4-3 and I've always wondered if that's why he's been sorta under the radar until this year. Maybe he would welcome the change.
     
  16. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    It would have to be, coaches raved about him and he is further along then Ta'amu, who knows what we will get out of him yet.
     
  17. lersgofor7

    lersgofor7 Well-Known Member

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    good read....makes you wonder
     
  18. D0bre Shunka

    D0bre Shunka Well-Known Member

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    Good read but I don't see it happening in it's entirety in the DL regime.

    I feel he's chosen his way at this point of his career.
     
  19. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    This is a subject that I have considered on an almost annual basis since Tomlin arrived. I have always rejected it because we were clearly a 3-4 personnel team, and have been exceptionally successful running the 3-4. While I disagree with the author that we have been putting square pegs in round holes, I think we're closing in being in that situation with recent draftees. Here is my breakdown of our front 7 players. I've organized them into 3 categories: 1) Players who are ideally suited to the 3-4; 2) Players who are ideally suited to a 4-3; and, 3) Players that I think could play either - or in the case of some of the deeper depth players - guys that I just don't have a feel for. I've included Hampton, Foote and Sylvester even though they are not signed for 2013. My conclusions are that our exclusively 3-4 type of players are mostly either north of 30, or somewhat inconsequential backups. I think that our 2012 draft was a very 4-3 oriented draft on defense.

    1) 3-4 Players
    Harrison (34)
    Keisel (34)
    Hampton (35) (not under contract for 2013)
    Foote (32) (not under contract for 2013)
    Worilds (24) - The only young guy of note who I see as a pure 3-4 OLB in the pros. Maybe he can play DE, but I disagree with the article author that he is a 4-3 OLB.
    Robinson (23)
    Woods (25)

    2) 4-3 Players
    Hood (25) - Much, much better fit as a "3 technique" penetrator than a 2 gap "5 technique." He shone very brightly in college in this role, and is a example where I agree with the article's author that he is a square peg.
    Spence (22) - Obvious 4-3 MLB in the smallish, fast Jonathan Vilma mold. May also be an ideal weak side OLB - perhaps even better there than in the middle. If we not only go to a 4-3, but adopt a Tampa 2 scheme, then we need a very rangy MLB who can cover the deep middle. Spence may offer that ability.
    T'Amu (22) - When he's sober, he can be a beast lining up on the nose in a 4-3. In that role, he would have more penetration responsibility as opposed to just hogging blockers, and it fits what he did best in college. I think he's better in a 4-3
    Sylvester (23) - Definitely a 4-3 OLB, although I'm not sure we retain him.

    3. Players who may or may not be better in a 4-3
    Woodley (28) - If he can get back into shape at his listed 265 lbs., then he is an ideal 3-4 OLB. However, at his current weight he is probably best in a 3 point stance, and may be a 10+ sack guy again if he didn't have to worry about coverage.
    Timmons (26) - Maybe the toughest call of all of the key players. He has evolved into a monster inside, but he doesn't have the range to be the MLB in a 4-3. So, what do we do with him? Can he be a beast outside in a 4-3? Can we use him a lot like the Broncos use Von Miller?
    Heyward (23) - Another tough call. I think he has the makings of a really solid 3-4 DE, and needs reps. However, he may also be good as a left DE in a 4-3 on 1st & 2nd down, then kicking inside in passing situations.
    McClendon (27) - I honestly think he can be a solid, but not great, player in either scheme. His ideal spot may be the 3 technique or the 4-3 nose, but there's no doubt that he has been solid when given reps in the 3-4.
    Carter (23), Johnson (29) & Fangupo (27) - No opinion yet.

    So, by my tabulation we may indeed be more of a 4-3 personnel team in the future, although I see that as a 2014 or 2015 move if it happens. This year's offseason will be very interesting to watch. Do we draft more obvious 4-3 players like Spence? If we are contemplating a switch, we need another pass rushing DE early. We also need to look hard at the LBs and get someone else who can play the MLB in a 4-3 (Ogletree, who I dislike in our current scheme, comes to mind as a high potential 4-3 MLB).

    As for LeBeau and the other coaches - I understand that coordinators often get pegged as 3-4 guys or 4-3 guys. I think he would be perfectly fine coordinating a 4-3, and may even come up with some new innovations if given a clean slate. I don't see him as an impediment to switching. Do I think we should do it? Not in 2013, but maybe in 2014.
     
  20. turkeysniper

    turkeysniper Well-Known Member

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    i believe timmons and spence were both wills, timmons may have been a sam but was outside in a 4-3. the interesting thing is that he seems to do better in the middle here than the outside. that's why i think he is a sam in a 4-3. only he does better taking angles on a run play than coming straight at him like a sam gets.
     
  21. CANTON STEEL

    CANTON STEEL Well-Known Member

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    We just changed to a new offense and I suspect we didn't cover all of Haleys system last season, and probably will still be learning more of it this season. I'm not ready to make the switch on the D side as well just yet. Could be an ugly season of confusion. :???:
     
  22. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see in camp if Harrison could play in the middle in Foote's spot. I think he would be good at it. Then have Worilds or the next best player on the outside. That's of course if we stay in the 3-4 defense.
     
  23. blountforcetrauma

    blountforcetrauma Well-Known Member

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    Also blountfocetrauma has raved about him as well. He is a BEAST!!!
     
  24. jimmyallen45

    jimmyallen45 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see them switching, but it was a good article with some intriguing posts about current personnel.
     
  25. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    I just wonder if this was the early 90's and most people run a 4-3, would a guy like JJ Watt or Justin SMith slide in the draft to us?
     

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