Kenny vs Mason (Raw Statistical Comparison)

Arguing Mason Rudolph or Mitch Trubisky what a time to be alive!

 

@S.T.D … I predicted Steelers would be 12-5, so far Im still alive. But when we lose 1 more game, ill be the first to say I was wrong!

 

your right in a way. I don’t think KP is the future anymore either with the way he keeps getting hurt. They need to just clean house in the offseason. New OC and new QB room. Maybe new HC eventually too.

 

Me being realistic, take crap for not believing KFP is our future. We or I have seen enough to know he doesn’t have it. Someone mentioned earlier KFP reminded him of Tim Couch, ding ding ding we have a winner. HFS, both of them

 

Pocket awareness is a separate trait from confidence. When you see a QB who panicks quickly and has happy feet it is very hard to fix. I can't think of one QB who overcame that fault at the NFL level off hand. In fact some QBs come into the league a bit iffy in that trait and when faced with consistently poor protections get to a point where they can't not focus on the rush.

I think there is value in continuing to evaluate Kenny as they get the OL to provide better protections. But to some extent guys like him will actually invite pressure. Because if you are a QB who struggles to get through reads or who cannot read threat at the line of scrimmage, both of which are true with him, then blitzing and exotic rushes are more successful. Where he is right now the line of scrimmage reads are most important. Cards took full advantage of that. But once again I think the team needs to find another QB who can apply pressure to him from the depth chart. I think competition is the one thing that might bring out his best, but even that feels like a longshot and he's got a ton of things to fix but lack of confidence alone can sink you at this level.

 

The way the front office and tomlin seem to be freezing Mason out based on an allegation by s low life is shameful Just wearing the Black and Gold should mean he should be given a shot and not punished to freeze on the bench..........next man up seems like b.s. .It being the Christmas season Rudolf saving the day would be a miracle ........we sure need one and have nothing to lose .Either we are screwed and Mason gets scrooged or a miracle happens..

 

to be honest i thought he showed intangibles like being able to extend plays and throw on the run accurately. He showed intelligence and moxie. It was Canada's system that made him and the offense overall look bad - i still firmly believe that. So I thought he could be the next franchise guy and we would be spared another 20 years of searching like last time. But he keeps getting hurt - its too often. He's no good to the team when he gets hurt this often. So let the Steelers pick QB in the first round if they see someone they like...and maybe get a center in the 2nd - but make QB a priority.

 

I'm not far behind You. Just two games

 

Obviously you like Mason and as a fan that's your prerogative but consider that the other guy who got picked over him was a high draft pick. There's a big difference in talent level there. I don't think much of either of them personally but if this next guy up is terrible you may end up getting your wish, just gotta wait a bit longer.

 

Not a Mason fan but a fan of giving a player fair treatment also our options are slim to none so why not do what is the right thing ,the Chief did the right thing with Rocky when his ever playing was a long shot at best.Often just doing the right thing reaps unexpected rewards.

 

I would keep Kenny as a backup. I would give the HC one more try with one more QB since I dont know how much input he had in picking Kenny. The Kenny pick is more consistent with what we had seen out of Colbert his last few years of running the draft...reaching for help at a position of need after missing out on the better players at the same position. Kenny was the first QB taken, but if we're being blatantly honest he was the lesser of two evils and should not have been considered at that point in the draft. I wouldn't have thought about him till the third at the earliest, but that's me.

 

It would also give him more recent tape for other teams to look at. If Mason plays well, that would increase his trade value, as I'm sure there are going to be at least a few teams looking for a serviceable backup, or perhaps even a stop gap. Ironically, one of those teams could very well be the Patriots...which is why it drives me crazy that they're not capitalizing on that opportunity.

 

I agree. Kenny was definitely more of a 3rd Rounder than he was a 20th overall. In any other draft with a decent or better crop of QBs, that's where he would've been taken at. That his stats are largely identical to Mason's (except with much few TDs) bears this out. I sometimes can't even believe that they wasted a pick in that way - it comes across as arrogance, like Colbert or perhaps even Tomlin believed that the team was already good enough, that only a hometown hero QB would be required.

What they should've done is embrace the rebuild mentality for few seasons, assembling the pieces needed for an above average QB to eventually be taken in some future draft. Instead, they put the cart before the horse, and got so skittish about losing Ben that they pounced on the first QB who fell to them...not unlike the guy who's longterm relationship just ended and they date the first chick who gives him a seductive glance, despite the serious red flags that he won't notice until a few months later

 

agree with everything except the big difference in talent. The only thing Mitch has over MR is he can scramble and run better.

 

But, context is also important in this case. Kenny's QB drafting class is widely considered to be among the worst - if not THE worst - out of any drafting class in the last 25 odd years. Of the 9 QBs drafted that year, only one of them would be taken in the first round: Kenny Pickett. It wouldn't be until Round 3 and 74th overall that another QB would be taken. In fact, when Kenny was acquired in the 1st round at 20th overall, it was the latest that the first QB was taken in any draft since 1997.

In other words, there ostensibly wasn't a lot of competition, and it seems entirely conceivable - and likely - that if the Steelers didn't take Kenny in the 1st, no team would have, until at least the 2nd round, and possible even as as late as the 3rd or 4th

By contrast, Mason's drafting class was, was literally overflowing with (thought at the time to be prized) QBs, with 5 QBs selected in just the first round alone - the most since 1983. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, both taken in the first, are legitimate, franchise QBs and have definitive record of success. Other first round guys aren't quite on their level, but Baker Mayfield is fairly above average and could still do some great things in the future. Sam Darnold is a bland-but-serviceable journeyman backup QB who's not a great player, but who has at least found some kind of niche in the league. Lastly and leastly, you've got the Josh Rosen - a bust by any metric.

By the end, a whopping 13 total QBs were drafted in 2018. That 5 were taken all up front suggests that this was a draft that team GMs saw as worth dipping into, making the competition fierce.

My point is: what a 20th overall pick means in 2018 is likely quite a bit different from what a 20th overall pick means in 2023. When Mason Rudolph was selected in 3rd round, 76th overall, he was his drafts 6th QB taken. By contrast, in 2022, the second QB was drafted in the 3rd Round and 74th overall. This would suggest that there's a significant difference in competitive quality between those drafts. In 2022, the Steelers took Pickett earlier than he was projected, probably out of desperation - which means, imo, he's probably not nearly as good as his draft. By comparison, 2018 would have been a much more difficult - and historically competitive - year to get drafted in QB, thus, at least to some extent, elevating the overall perceived value of each selection.

 

In college Mason was a way better Qb than Baker. Baker just played on a way better team. OU always out recruits OSU

 

If I remember correctly both of us were also worried about his hands

 

Agree, sort of. But how does this fraternity tolerate someone making false racist claims and still able to play in Cleveland? It does go both ways, right? JMO>

 

If our coaching staff thought that all 3 current QB's were better than Dobbs, and you say none of the three would be able to start for anyone else, how is Dobbs starting in the NFL for another team? Maybe these 4 QB's mentioned just suck here because of the inability to design an offense that fits these players strengths and minimizes their weaknesses. Ben seemed to able to have the OC conform to what he wanted to do but that died when he left. JMO>

 

I see your point! Dobbs might be better than the 3 we got?!

 

I wouldn't call it several times, several years. He outplayed Mitch in preseason two years in a row. Mitch was gifted the starting job last year and wasn't forced to compete.

 

Pouncry was the worst center in the league by a mile most of the time mason played.. once he hurt his ankle in 16 or 17 he was trash after that

 

IMO this is a perfect example of Tomlin's lack of attention to detail. This is not the first time we are scratching our heads wondering why we have zero depth behind starters. Once Tomlin has his starter , it's like we make zero thought in finding quality backups. How many times have we seen back up Qb's, DL, OL, and LB's so bad you have to wonder how on earth they made the roster? Either we have a serious scouting issue or Tomlin just doesn't give a crap. How on earth do you go into the season with Mitch as your primary backup to a 2nd year QB that really struggled out of the gate? Mitch would not make any NFL roster. How many back up QB's have we seen in the NFL out play every QB on our roster? This issue existed with Ben as our starter. When Ben went down it looked like our backup never played a snap in the NFL.

Before you say there's a lack of QB's in the league, this issue exists at just about every position on the team. Not to mention after watching Mitch in practice for 2 years we didn't once think we need a better backup? D--line, O-line, corners, ILB, etc we have zero depth and the backups we have wouldn't make any NFL roster in most cases. Why didn't we have someone to challenge MITCH for the backup job? 3rd string - sure. but primary backup and was actually our plan to be our starting qb not long ago is crazy. How can we be that bad at scouting? I think it points to the attention to details that Tomlin consistently fails at. This is why we constantly make mental mistakes, struggle to sustain any drives, can't get off the field on 3rd downs, etc etc. and run out players so bad you have to wonder if they attended camp or a single practice. I get losing your QB is going to hurt but Jesus Mitch is a veteran. AND if Mason is worse... how on earth is he getting a paycheck? Tomlin didn't care. I think he figured it would save HR some paper work if we just re signed Mason vs finding another QB that might actually have upside.