New OC. Same offensive stalling...

I'll go back and look, but we're talking about professional football players here. It didn't take the 2011 Bengals multiple years to with a rookie qb to the playoffs with a new OC or the 2012 Colts. The Falcons went from playoff team to an new oc and are still a playoff team. So don't play that bs that haley needs more time.


2007 Arians first year as OC with the Steelers.

2,100 + rushing yards, 3000+ passing yards, TOP 33:21 46 total touchdowns(9 rushing, 34 passing) We went from 8-8 to 10-6.

 

Dude Ben would've had MUCH more passing yds if Wallace and the boys would learn to catch the dang ball. There is no doubt in my mind that Haley is a much better OC than BA will ever be. I feel good in making this assertion due to the fact that the Rooney's agree with me. Also due to the fact that Bill Belichik called Haley a "genius". When you talk about sacks are you saying that BEN was sacked as much under Haley as under BA? Or are you saying the LINE gave up almost as many sacks combining all THREE qbs Haley was forced to use this year? Do you think Haely designed his playbook with Batch and Lefty in mind? Did BA win with a 2nd and 3rd stringer? Did Gruden do that in Cincy? It's really not even as big of a deal as it used to be for a rookie to do that good in the NFL anymore. They say that these guys are getting ready for the pros more and more in college. Since Ben think about how many rookie qbs have taken the league by storm. Ben, Vince Young, Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, RG3, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, and I'm sure there are more. It is incredible to me that anyone would overlook the fact that Haley had to deal with this qb situation. I mean really it's on Tomlin to get us some better qbs. We thought we had depth at that position but as it turns out we just had fragility at that position. Also how can Haley help that our rb's couldn't hold the ball in Cleveland. There are so many more things that go in to this and to just look at the bottom line is not getting the whole story. I would like to have seen some more hurry up from this O. Think about how we looked for the first 28 minutes of most games. Then miraculously with 2 minutes to go we would play. It was maddening! We just need to get some balance in the offense and not be so stubborn and I think we will be fine.

 

I think it would greatly depend on what changed? Did Jay Gruden scrap what the Bengals had been working with and install a new system? Did he do as Arains did and refine a playbook that had been in place for years and just got fat bloated and awkward. I don't follow the Bengals enough to speak about how they performed on offense prior to Gruden versus now but having Marvin Lewis there for long tenure has provide stability and they have drafted some talent that has come into their own and Zimmer has the defense playing solid football. Now if you have followed them and are telling us it is a night and day difference then I am more impressed with Gruden than I was before. I chronicled some of my disappointment in Haley in another thread but again I can't look at the last year under Arains and the first year under Haley and draw a conclusion anymore than i could if they had just lit it up and were a top ten offense. In that case I would question how much is the talent and how much the scheme? I anticipated a drop off and a learning curve, which there was a drop off and a huge learning curve. I say wait and see what happens.

 

I hear you. You've been consistently preaching this, and, for that, I give you props. I agree.

Correcting the O-Line would be a major improvement.

There are still other issues that would need to be corrected, but a solid O-Line would give time to work those issues out without jeopardizing the season.

 

True. And they would have had more receiving yards if he didn't mis-throw so often.

 

But a "drop" is given out based on the fact that they could have caught it. But yeah Ben missed a lot of wide open dudes too. ESPECIALLY after coming back from injury. But balls that hit dudes in the hands or between the numbers or that they drop AFTER they catch it count as drops and that happened more times this year than Ben just making bad throws. Ben was actually throwing it really good until he got hurt.

 

I think you missed the point here...
My point here was that we had a bunch of injuries in the early part of the season but our O-line was able to jell and play pretty decent late in the year. I didn't say they were injury free. I didn't even say they were GOOD...it was an average line that developed into an above-average unit over the course of the year because most of them were able to play together.
This year, we had injuries ALL season and had no consistency. As a result, the sum of the parts were far less than the ability of the individual linemen (when healthy).
Just as they seemed to jell in mid-season, there were more injuries that totally sapped their cohesion and effectiveness.

 

Agreed. I'm just saying they all made mistakes.

 

I think Ben is a great QB. I just don't think he's elite. I don't know how that translates into me not liking him. It seems that just because I am critical of him people think I don't like him.

I think he makes a lot of easily avoidable mistakes. And missing wide open WRs that are on top of the D and streaking toward the end zone is something he does too often. Yes, WRs need to put in extra effort to get some of those. However, if Ben puts those passes in perfect position, more often, then we'll see more of those blowouts that many people say they'd like to see every once in a while. Even if not perfect, then just hit them in stride...

Regarding the comparison of Ben to Brady, that same argument is what also separates him from Peyton, Brees and Rodgers. Those choices that Ben makes, on the field, are why he hasn't reached the level of the elite QBs. They take what the defense gives them. And that opens up bigger opportunities later. Even Flacco knows to use that check down. I see Ben show flashes of this, but he never maintains that level for long stretches. I'd like to see him play like he did the first half of this season, for a couple seasons straight. But, even as others on this board have contemplated, he may not like that style. His comments about Haley may not have been inflammatory (at least not to me; I don't get into drama), but they do indicate how he feels about the process. Then he goes back to sandlot ball (I don't think totally, but he upped the percentage of plays where he did that). He could stand to play more disciplined.

 

Mendenhall is a complete back and is under-utilized.

 

I think the correction is as simple as getting everyone healthy. And honestly there isn't much of anything that can be done. It just purely a luck thing...unless there is something to their blocking scheme that Im unaware of. And I think thats part of the reason why no one wants to discuss it. The other being the "excuse" issue. But there really is no definitive fix for the injury bug. It just is and its a complete roll of the dice therefore theres nothing to discuss unless you want to go down the crazy road of blaming the strength and conditioning coach which some have done. But no amount of strength and conditioning is going to prevent you from being injured when a 350lb lineman rolls up your ankle or gets blocked into your knee.

IMO the other issues such as lack of running game or commitment to it, drops, and even spotty defensive play and turnovers (lack thereof) can be at least loosely related to the O line.

A healthy O line is one that can gel. One that the guys know each others tendencies, strengths and weaknesses, etc. A gelled O line is one that fix the running game. The RBs arent the problem if there is nowhere to run. And a successful running game is one that the OC can go to more often. It will get you into 3rd and shorter, cause the defense to be less agressive, and open up the passing game. It forces the opposing D to be honest, to pressure the QB less. A less hurried QB throws more accurately. More accurate throws lead to less drops. An offense like this keeps the defense off of the field to get better rested. A better rested defense, especially one predicated on attacking the QB is more effective at getting pressure. Also a smoother running offense gets a lead...a multiple score lead sometimes...and forces the opposing O to become more predictable, forces them to throw more, and in general allows your defense to do what is does best...attack the backfield. And of course this leads to hurried and erroneous throws which lead to more TOs.

Im telling you, if the Steelers had some luck on the O line this year and stayed healthy, this team would be on a short list of teams in the discussion for representing the AFC. To me its that simple and they're that close to being what they usually are.

And its also why I was dead set against firing Arians. He wasn't that bad, but was hamstrung by injuries. We really never got to see the full potential of his offense. And likewise its why I refuse to bash Todd Haley and refuse to, as many have, call for his firing. I liked what I saw at mid season when the O line did manage to start the same 5 guys for 2 or 3 games in a row. There is potential there too.

The Steelers, much like the mid 00s Bengal, have been on a run of terrible luck regarding injuries. It just happens. Those Bengal teams in the years immediately following year they won the division (2005) were some really good teams that had a terrible rash of injuries. The result was them tanking in those years and muddling around .500. Their fans were livid. Irate. They wanted Lewis' head. I used to go their MBs and talk them off of the roof. It wasn't as dysmal was they thought.

 

Dude Brees has threw picks like crazy this year. Peyton had a 3 pick game in Atlanta. That's almost half as many as Ben has all YEAR.