Cook, Hoke, Starkey on Pickett

https://www.audacy.com/937thefan/podcasts/the-cook-joe-show-272/chris-hoke-in-studio-1535146620

 

That was a pretty good interview. Quite honestly, Hoke's thoughts echo those of some of our esteemed members on this board. I think we all know the offensive philosophy has no identity and they absolutely need to start trying to run the ball more. Even if it is for only 2 or 3 yards a pop. That would take some of the pressure off of Kenny. Problem with that is, I can see fans lose their collective minds over that. Either way, this team simply cannot be successful with a rookie quarterback throwing 40 to 50 times a game.
Pickett, and the whole team in general, need to stop leaving plays on the field and execute better. Really hard to evaluate the play calling if the film is showing lack of discipline and execution.
Let's hope they can reset the entire team during the bye week and get back to attention to detail.

 

Reset your head.

Listen to it.

 

I have seen some clips of plays, and some analysts say that Pickett needs to learn to step up in the pocket more.

 

Pocket??? What pocket?

He is working with a broken scheme. Poor o-line, no running game, bad field position, no help from the defense and always playing from behind.

This kid has NOTHING Ben had.

Ben had a veteran O-line with a hall of famer. HOF running back, good WR’s and a top 3 defense.

Ben only threw for 20 passes once. Kenny in 4 full games played has already passed Ben’s attempts in almost a full season. Kenny has to pass nearly 40+ times a game from two or more possessions down the vast majority of the time with Canada’s horrible plays and WR’s with springs for fingers.

This kid needs some slack cut for him by the fan base.

 

I think many fans were unfairly expecting a Big Ben or Justin Herbert type rookie season where Pickett just lights the world on fire, coming off a strong preseason. That's obviously not what's happening. Not making excuses, because Kenny does have areas in his game he needs to improve on.. That said, I'm not sure how many QBs in this league could succeed in this offense. From scheme to personnel, it's just awful. There's some talent at the skill positions, but the lack of cohesiveness amongst the offense as a whole is as bad as I've ever seen from a Steelers team. Nobody can succeed under those circumstances.

 

People said he was NFL ready with low ceiling. So I guess this is it lol

 

The team wasn’t successful when Mr Roethlisberger threw 40-50 times a game

Why expect a rookie to do it

When Ben came in as a rookie they greatly dumbed down the passing part of the game plan and slowly let him grow into it

 

But his success is directly related to good scheme, better play around his offense (an actual run game for a novel idea!), his field position from punt returns, and not playing at a serious point deficit, no?

His ceiling should be dramatically raised with a better plan. I think top QB’s would struggle. An aging Ben last year struggled and his veteran knowledge is the only thing that helped us - coupled with Harris playing far better then illustrates that.

We are not seeing his true season and context makes it obvious to me. It’s a failure on the coaching staff to not have a smart adjustment to maximize things. Look at Daniel Jones and the Giants with a better coaching staff and scheme.

Kenny has essentially played four friggin games in his pro career.

 

Love it when people try to shoot the messenger

 

If you want to accept only the point of view of his critics, sure. If you actually understand anything about the player, not so much.

 

Not trying to start a beef, but when I hear stuff like that it just seems irrelevant because it leaves out so much greater context. I just can’t see how it’s a valuable take provided the actual circumstances.

I’m not saying I think this kid is extra special or the franchise yet, but literally EVERYONE (except Pickens) - players and coaches - has had plenty of valuable reps to access and they all are pretty much universally recognized as underperforming to what we believe they should, but this dude is saddled with that situation in only four games.

I don’t think that’s a hot take either.

 

This is the problem I have with your take. Hoke was a 12 year veteran of the nfl. Played under both cowher and tomlin. He knows football, breaking down film, scheme, where the gaffs are etc better than anyone on this board. He is pointing out repeatedly examples game after game where the play is there to be made and Pickett makes the wrong choice. That’s not a coach or oc problem. That’s a Pickett problem. You can ignore it, but it’s foolish to do so. I don’t know that Canada’s scheme is earth shattering offense. However, I do know when the players fail to execute the simple consistently you can’t move on to the complex. Almost every single bad play this year there’s at least one breakdown with this team. One play it’s cole getting beat. The next it’s Moore with a false start. The next it’s a receiver running the wrong route. The next it’s a qb making a terrible read. Those aren’t scheme issues. Those are player issues. These are professional atheletes getting paid millions to play a game. The onus is on them to know and do their job.

 

I agree to a good extent and even considered his statement as a professional, but I still disagree to a degree also. It’s like musician friends who because they play music think that their opinion on a and musician or band had more value because I don’t have musical talent or abilities. They aren’t entirely wrong or right all ar the same time. I’d like to think that after decades of being an avid football fan and serious lover of music coupled with my best friend since childhood who was nearly a virtuoso guitar player taught be a lot on how to listen with my ear and also how to watch football with keen (enough) senses that I’m more than a casual watcher and listener. I’m well aware that these people have a better working knowledge and can teach more than I know without their guidance.

But I believe I’ve developed a pretty good eye and ear and have actively tried to develop these analyzation skills to put things in context.

In that same mode of thought - I bet you’d hear a an offensive side of ball player or QB say that Hoke’s comments are wrong with the finer points of QB play because ‘what does he know, he played D-line’. Both correct and incorrect at the same time.

 

the fan base is dumb.

our O is broken - top to bottom, starting with coaching. We have a long way to go. People need to be fired, a whole new staff put in place, and that is just for starters.

 

Go listen to Ramon foster because he says the exact same thing. While you can watch or listen to an extent it’s not the same as actually being able to do it. Just because you sit on your couch and watch football doesn’t mean you understand the full extent of what’s happening. You can’t even see everyone on the field to watch a play develop. These days fans have the luxury if they’re willing to pay for it to watch the all22, but that doesn’t mean they know anything. We had a poster here break down film of pickets first half of football. On the interception of the pass intended for chase his claim was the only problem with the pass is it should have been thrown short. It was thrown short. That’s why claypool had to stop and come back for it. It was also a rainbow that allowed Jordan white field enough time to recover and snag the interception. The point is just because people have access to all22(aka coach’s film) it doesn’t mean they understand or know what they’re looking at

 

The onus is on the offensive coordinator to put them in a position to succeed, too. Canada does not do that.

Poor schemes put players in bad positions, which then leads to more mistakes.

Pickett definitely had a bad game against the Eagles. He lost some of his aggressiveness with throws down the field, perhaps due to the interceptions. I think he really needed this bye week to reset and see that he still needs to be taking those shots. I don't remember seeing a play that he had Freiermuth open for a touchdown and threw the ball away, but I do remember when Pickens had his man beat deep and Pickett made a back shoulder throw instead and the time he sailed a throw to a wide-open Freiermuth on a third-and-long.

 

I get that. But I’m not watching football like my wife who’s been casually watching for years too. She doesn’t understand the difference in defensive packages or responsibilities. Sure, there is a world of stuff I need to learn but I’m also not like the casual fan who doesn’t know the even the fundamental differences in a strong safety and a free safety or the people who used to maddeningly compare Ed Reed and Troy. Never mind the personal skill set each had different than each other.

Of course I’m an arm chair QB, but after four games of Pickets total career I’m seeing far more than him stepping up into the pocket. He is often forced to step up because it’s collapsing far too often and too fast on the edges and guys like Hargrave (who should still be in Black and Gold) crashing into his stepping into lane up the gut.

I’ve seen Kenny step in and deliver a dart to Freirmooth in his first game. The guy doesn’t seem to be afraid. He wants to sling it, maybe too many times too much. I bet he’d agree with Hoke that he needs to refine and do lots of things better. All I’m saying is that when I’m on my couch connecting the dots, all I’m seeing is ALL the other problems around him much more than I’m seeing him kill us.

 

Yup. Steelers depot has a good write up w videos of plays up today

It's difficult to judge as he is a rookie and I've read that Canada's system preaches take the first read when open EVERY time

So if a qb is coached up to hit first read, learning to scan for 2nd n 3rd reads is hard to do

Pi$$ poor ol play doesn't help either

 

What? Your first read is called your first read for a reason. Just as a check down is called a check down for a reason. Yes. If your first read is open you throw it to your first read. Ok x is open, but let me check y, nope, okay let me check z, nope not open either. I’ll go back to x, oops not open anymore

 

Give Pickett time. We can't really fully analyze everything in a couple games. Sure he may have missed open targets at times. That doesn't mean he sucks and will always miss this.

As for Canada, who knows. His head is on the chopping block for sure from the majority of the fans. My guess is he's been trying to compensate for having a lackluster line.

So the playcalls are all about moving the pocket to disguise this glaring weakness and throw short high percentage passes.

Whenever everything sucks though most likely he will be the one sacrificed lol.

I still can't get past who the back up RB I'd more effective than Najee. Lisfranc yeah I get it. Then I guess sit the dude.

I've been saying it for years. Skill positions are great and all bit the game is win in the trenches.

We are seeing the result of a below average to poor offensive line

 

There are times Pickett could've stepped up in the pocket, instead he scrambled and threw an incomplete pass.

 

“Times”???

You do understand that we are talking about a complete sample size of a whopping 4 games here right? He’s barely had any “times”.

 

Pickett certainly deserves some of the blame, but he’s a rookie quarterback who hasn’t been put in a position to succeed by his coaching staff. Both the OC and the HC are to blame for that. I’m concerned at this point that his confidence is going to be shot and he’ll have a hard time recovering from that. He needs to play better, especially when he’s on the plus side of the field and in red zone, but he’s also been grossly mishandled by this inept coaching staff.