Just a Question????

A couple things come to mind. And I'm thinking of guys specifically who were drafted by Pittsburgh and sent out to pasture. I kinda think free agents we acquire and leave don't count, since at the point they leave the burgh (assuming Pittsburgh is their second contract) they are likely on the backside of their career, generally speaking.

1. Pittsburgh drafted a player for a specific skill set that elevated that player production within our scheme. Skill set may not be as applicable to scheme of next team.
2. Injuries
3. Who are they playing next to in Pittsburgh vs new team. Sometimes players are a product of the teammates surrounding them.
4. Scheduled competition. The North has been pretty good historically. But...players can get fat on playing poor teams...especially if a division is poor.

I'm drawing a blank on someone who was a top-tier player who left and wasn't still a close version to what they were in Pittsburgh, as long as they weren't at the end of their career. Most of the guys I can think of that flamed out might have been a good player for Pittsburgh but had noticeable flaws in their game. Bell was top tier...but we all saw that drop off coming given his workload...which is why he left.

 

Vrabel, Kirkland, Searcy, Brister (2 SB rings - LOL), and jury is still out currently on JuJu. That's all I got.

So very little positive history regarding STD's original postulation.

 

Before Tomlin

 

I wouldn't say better, but Ok....we'll say that's one, but one of countless others that didn't.

 

I won't write them all because people can do the research as well as I, but I will give You very recent ones....
B. Dupree.....went to a team with a better record...., and has basically disappeared.
How about bringing people in for other teams....Minkah Fitzpatrick. There are two examples. One that got worse after leaving, and one that got better after coming here.
If You don't believe Me (which I don't write about things I haven't already researched) go look for Yourself. Way more get worse when they leave, and get better when they get Here.... than the opposite.

 

Not sure what You mean. They all were before Tomlin....So

 

Look at the numbers. He was definitely better after he left Pittsburgh.

 

Dupree blew out his knee during his final season in Pittsburgh. That is a variable that has nothing to do with Tomlin. Also, during his two strong seasons as a Steeler, he had the best edge rusher in the game on the other side of the field. He doesn't have that in Tennessee.

The coaches definitely deserve credit for Fitzpatrick. The Dolphins didn't use him properly. The Steelers did.

You made the claim. It is on you to support it. Two examples aren't nearly enough to support your claim. If you refuse to support it, that suggests to me that you can't.

 

Ok, so here it is ( imo ) going back to 2010...

Emmanuel Sanders: Good here, better elsewhere
Mike Wallace: Better than average here and elsewhere
Melvin Ingram: Much Better elsewhere
LeGarrett Blount: Much better elsewhere
Steve McClendon: Same...
Cortez Allen: I really don't know...
Keenan Lewis, Better once he left...
Kelvin Beachum: Same, Average player...
Plexico Burress: Same, good player here, and when he left...
Larry Foote: Much better here...
William Gay: Same...
Felix Jones: Better away from here...
Al Woods: Stunk here, Much better away from here...
AB: no explanation lol...
LeVeon Bell: GREAT player here, sucked away from here...
Cam Thomas: Sucked here, I imagine he sucked away from here ...
Bud Dupree: Meh here, Meh away from here...
Jesse James: Slight better here, but was not good...
Artie Burns: Sucked here, better away from here...
Joshua Dobbs: Never really played here, or away... Wash...
LJ Fort: MUCH better away from here...
Gravedigger: very good here, and away from here...
Mike Hilton: Much better here...
Mike Mitchell: OK here, really don't know...
JuJu: Better here, But it's so early...
Jonathan Bostic: Sucked here, Better away from here...
James Conner: Pretty good here, Better away from here...
James Washington: Meh and Meh...
Steven Nelson: Better than average here, and away from here...
Matt Feiler: Better away from here ( I really wanted to keep him)
Derwin Gray: Never given a chance here, MUCH better away...
Jerald Hawkins: Sucked here, Then idk...
Justin Layne: ^^^^^ See above...
Trai Turner: Sucked here , then idk...
Kalen Balledge: ^^^^^ See above...
Taco Charlton: ^^^^^ See above...
Rashad Coward: ^^^^^ See above
BJ Finney: Ok here, then idk

So these are the players since 2010, I really don't know what you're basing your thread on...I just don't see it, Sorry Buddy

 

Conner was better Here. 3265 all purpose yards,and 26 tds while hurt all the time...now in Arizona 1430 APYs , and 19 tds.
Dupree was better Here..
1 td, 1 int, 8 FF, 231 tackles, 54 TFL, 65 Qb hits, and 39.5 sacks.....at Tennessee....0ints, 0 ints, 1 FF, 19 tackles, 3 TFL, 10 Qb hits, and 4 sacks.
Minkah Fitzpatrick is not even close, and You left Him out.....I don't want to type anymore, but You get the picture.

 

I make no claims I can't backup....just because I don't want to type all the stuff....someone can try ,and prove Me wrong, and yes Dupree counts. Not Tomlin's fault for anything You mentioned. He also had surgery Here ,and was out for games here. He also had 8 sacks in 9 games started before Watt ever played which is more than He has in Tennessee even now.....So....

 

I was responding to Dobbler who interjected previous coaches, asking the same question as you did with Tomlin. JuJu's the only one I can think of under Tomlin and it's too early to tell although he had a good last game per the stats. Just remembered, Sanders did alright with Denver. Sorry - just saw where others brought him up.

 

Your claim is that Tomlin deserves credit for players being better here than elsewhere. That implies that there are no other relevant factors accounting for the different levels of play. In Dupree's case, there are other factors, particularly the blown out knee. The one statistic you just offered is also misleading. He may have only started nine games before Watt arrived, but that was over two full seasons. The honest way to relate that statistic would be a total of eight sacks in two seasons before Watt, which shows he wasn't particularly good until he had an elite pass rusher on the other side. No, in no way does Dupree prove your point. He may have missed time as a Steeler, but those injuries aren't as impactful as a torn ACL.

The statistics you used for Conner were also misleading. You compared total yards and touchdowns even though he was a Steeler for four seasons and he is not even halfway through his second season with the Cardinals. Also, running backs don't age well. By year six, most of them are already slowing down, so again, there is a factor other than Tomlin at play.

Unlike you, I will be fair in my analysis. I do think Conner was better as a Steeler, but the way to show that is through averages, not total number, especially yards per carry. That said, it still isn't accurate to say that is all coaching given that the offensive systems are so different and that running backs tend to slow down five or six years into their careers.

Fitzpatrick is a great example of a player getting better as a Steeler than what he was elsewhere, but that's all you've got. Disco presented a much better argument than you just did. One player doesn't prove a claim and based on what I've seen, you can't prove yours.

 

I wasn't trying to prove you wrong...Just trying to point out that there were hits and MISSES...I know this is gonna sound cliche but...

Some players left here and played better,some played worse,some were just the same...

A few played much better when leaving, some played much worse...

This is the ONE time I will stick up for Tomlin...Not every player that left here, flourished somewhere else... That's just silly

 

That's a highly open ended question, with different answers for each player......
Maybe if you present a specific list of players, then I, at least could give you a more definitive answer

 

Javon Hargrave loss set the defense back in my opinion.

 

I believe cap wise it was a decision between him and Tuitt, couldn't keep both...

Hindsight...

 

yeah...letting him walk was not a great choice in hindsight. However, the idea was we'd have a few years of Heyward and Tuitt...so the DL had talent...didn't work out.

 

That was not unusual for many teams. Im.not sure of the accuracy of this, but was told for years that the original taxi squad name came from.player driving taxis in the office season for George Halas company...or some such thing. May be bogus, but players did not normally work out in off season..thus the longer training camp.

 

Keep in mind STD asked specifically about players from the Tomlin regime..... Half of your list goes too far back

 

I think for all 3 coaches you can find examples of players who played worse, a few who played better. I think in the FA world it often comes down to money. A player may have a decent season and an owner just throws insane money, but the org is actually a loser perpetually.

 

Tomlin was here way before 2010