Let me hear your reasons for doubting Mason Rudolph

Here's what I've seen of MR:

1) He has average NFL arm strength at best. Out route balls have no zip.
2) He has accuracy that is average at best. He can't consistently hit receivers on the numbers or on the run resulting in limited YAC.
3) He is a beat late on most every throw. The ball is delivered when receivers are out of their break not as their coming out of their break.

A quality NFL QB can be average or deficient in one of those things as long as they're above average on the others. Average or below in all three? You're not a quality NFL QB.

 

he's got as good of chance as any of the other two we have at this time. i do want a rookie added because haskins is the guy that doesn't do it for me. if we could add pickett or corral to trubisky and mason, i think we could have a nice stable of qb's capable of winning a lot of games. add a WR to what we have and protection from the line and we could be pretty good.

we can blame these qb's for not stepping up and not sitting tall in the pocket but our offensive line since mason got on the field has been quite putrid to say the least. this isn't a qb problem, it's an offensive line problem. now i think they have fixed some of that problem so we may see some better qb play to go with it. mason will be judged by the prior line and people will judge trubisky with the upgraded version.

i want to give mason a chance in this offense. i think our coach see's this offense being something quite different then a conventional nfl offense. this offense was limited to ben. ben and mason and canada had to run ben's offense. can they put it all together in one offseason? good question. i expect it to be a learning process for everyone. it may be a good thing we have young players on offense to make it their own. i don't see super bowl this year but a building of a new era in steeler history. this is a transition season. i don't expect a draft pick to become a savior this year but we do need to get one and allow him to grow with this offense just like trubisky and mason. don't be afraid of a first round pick at qb. quit making him have to be a star in bens offense. same as these other qb's.

 

mason year one was the number 3 guy and a rookie without a true qb coach. he didn't get many reps.

year two he moved up to number 2 and really just began learning the receivers and the offense with a few more reps. then he was thrust into the starting job. still without a legit qb coach and the o-line was deteriorating. also ben's offense and a new OC.

year 3 finally a qb coach added. still bens offense and a new OC. 2nd qb reps in practice and a bad o-line. a young group as well at all the skill spots.

year 4, same OC, same qb coach, upgraded o-line, ben's offense gone and a full camp to work in. i think we finally truly will see what we have in him. qb's only run the offense they are given. if they are not running many crossing route's then you won't see him making those throws. ben didn't either we have complained about before. so why should mason be judged on them? they weren't a high priority in ben's offense. i think the whole offense evolves from what we have gotten used to with ben at the helm. we will only now see the true canada offense and how a true qb coach can coach. nobody was going to tell ben how and what to do. they let him go and i guess rightfully so at the time. now we can play to these other qb's strengths. we haven't truly seen that yet.

 

I do see that now you said it but that picture reminds me of someone who has a few mental problems.

 

His footwork fundamentals are slow and uneven and his pocket presence is terrible. Not so sure his play processing is
where it should be for playing this much football? Career back up for possibly 2-3 games max.

 

They signed Trubisky who is a proven NFL starter. End of story.

If they draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd Rudolph might be traded. Lets see what the 1st round graded 3rd round pick will fetch. Not much i'm sure. Or just dump Haskins what a waste.

When they brought back the statute that was all for me. Ben didn't fit in Canada's scheme. They had the chance to forgo bringing him back and giving the nod to Rudolph. They didn't. Very telling.

 

The good QB's don't repeat mistakes.
He has competition now, he has played behind one of the greats (like Rogers behind Farve)
Can he turn it on as Rogers did? He has some skills, but I can't profess to anoint him as Rogers part II
But I like the fact that the team went out and brought in competition.
The competition pushes both and both should be motivated.
I view Haskins as one who should be motivated too but my personal experience with him leads me to believe he's not in the running.
I prefer to add a QB via the draft.
I think Pickett goes early and Willis is a possibility. I'm not high on that, but the scouts will know more than I do.
Pittsburgh's scouts have been putting the extra hours in this year, so we'll see.

For now, Mason needs to put in the bookwork hours and the additional training to give himself the best chance to win this.

Tribusky is doing the right thing, hosting the workouts.

 

Honestly, forget what any of us on this board think of Rudolph. It's about what the Steelers' think and their actions over the last couple of off-seasons say it all. Signed him to a one-year deal and went out and signed Trubisky to a two year deal.

They've made it abundantly clear they have no faith in him being a quality starter.

 

This captures some of my impression of Mason. The "IT" factor. His teammates do not step their game up when he is behind center. Mason often puts together really good drives, but false start penalties and unforced errors seem to plague him. I mean it appears to me that these stupid mistakes by teammates happen more to Mason than any quarterback I can recollect.

 

that happens with a change of qb. heck it happened with ben as well but when they put in a different qb this is not unusual.

 

This is EXACTLY how I feel. My feelings about Mason have nothing to do with his college stats at all. He looks terrified on the field.

 

Mason Rudolph had his chance in 2019 when Big Ben's elbow gave out.

He needed to take the reins and not look back, that was his golden chance. He didn't make the most of it, and a really good defense that year made his record better than it even should of been.

He lost the job to an undrafted Div. I AA rookie QB that season, who now plays in the CFL and doesn't even start in the CFL in Duck Hodges.

He came in last year on short notice... last year against the Lions, but lets get serious, Mason was getting all the practice reps every Wednesday, because Ben wasn't even practicing until Thursday most of the time. So, he should of been prepared, why you throw it 45 times in that game with crap weather was also stupid, but that is not so much Mason's fault as it was Matt Canada and Mike Tomlin.
Did he do enough to not lose to the Lions in that game yes, did he do enough to win it no.
Lastly the Lions were one of the worse teams in the NFL and your playing at home, you can't lose or tie that game if your Mason.

Mason can be a back up in the league, that much I am sure of. He knows the game, and if you have to start the guy for 4-5 games, he can keep you at .500 during that period. But, you don't want him as your starter.

He also is crap under pressure, can't extend plays, he gets touched he goes down and in today's NFL you have to have that ability yo extended the play either through your strength or speed. When that pocket collapeses he folds, like a 60 year old wooden church chair.

 

we have gone through 2, no actually 3 offensive line coaches the last two years. i would be scared too behind what we have put on the field in front of our qb's. fix that and allow the qb to do his job.

we have to quit blaming the qb for the failures of the front office and coach in fixing the problem. this will actually be the 4th o-line coach in two years. that's not counting the turnover in players. blame is going to the wrong place. none of these other premium qb's in this league have to operate behind this type of ineptness. we saw even mahomes take abuse and look pretty pedestrian after he lost many of his starting linemen a couple of years ago. now we are expecting mason to have looked good and efficient behind what we had on the field? please.

our friggin o-line coach didn't even finish the season with the team last year. we had rookies and backups across the board. even the year mason had to start the line was on a heavy decline. this is not his fault.

 

I would agree except that he has no arm strength to throw an out and he's constantly late on his throws. I just don't see an NFL arm in him. What you said is true but at some point he has to show he can at least throw the ball with some authority

 

Part of one of the evaluations from a scout:

Arm Strength is not an issue, in any evaluation I've seen or been witness to.
Instead, it is more like:
- Leads his receivers into trouble. This will not get you anywhere in the NFL. He needs to see the play unfold (the windows) and lead his receivers into optimal position to gain yards "after the catch."
- He does an effective job of climbing the pocket.
- When he faces pressure, Rudolph makes far fewer poor decisions some other QB's starting today.
- Shows more than enough arm strength when zipping the ball over the middle or on out routes into tight windows, he frequently underthrows receivers.

Pittsburgh nabbed him as I expected then, in the 3rd. They were keeping an eye down the road with a project that might replace Ben.

All his shortcomings are repairable, if he's willing to do so. I just don't know if his head is in the right place.

As Tomlin said; "Neither (Haskins or Rudolf) are everyday starters." And that's why we have Trubisky.
And its why the current depth chart reads:
1. Mitch Trubisky
2. Mason Rudolf
3. Dewayne Haskins
4. ?
and preseason will determine if that remains.

 

I use this expression a lot, and probably rely on it to much but...The eye test!

I understand every QB doesn't have a cannon like Josh Allen but, Watching him play...Out patterns, mid range curl routes,deep in cuts...His balls are all loopy...No zip, they're like rainbows!He throws a nice accurate deep ball (that was his go to in college to Washington ) big rainbows that he put in good position, and also Washington was also good at contested catches...

A lot of things are correctable, but you can't make somebody's arm, not weak AF

 

Don't read to much into the 2 year contract of Trubisky.

The Steelers can easily walk away from him after this year. Year 1 cost is 3.6 million year 2 is 10.6 million. If things go wrong the Steelers can cut him in 2023 and save 8 million in cap.

 

So, right now the Cap cost of our QBs for 2022 are:

1) Mason Rudolph 4.0 million
2) Mitch Trubisky 3.25 million
3) Dwayne Haskins 2.5 million

 

That's really not the point. In most cases a team can walk away from any contract.

The point here is that the Steelers gave Rudolph the option to walk away after 1 year. That's how little they think of him. Basically, "Oh, we may lose him after next year? Big whup."

 

So Mason isn't as good as QBs being paid $40-50M? I agree with that.
You can find better players around the league, but they are a lot more expensive as well.
That can be done for every Steelers player not named TJ Watt (or Minkah, after he gets an extension).
A team can't afford to pay top dollar at every position.

The question is, can Mason be good enough?
(Falling short of being an all-pro doesn't automatically mean a bust.)

 

It means that if manages to develop into a solid starter, they'd have to re-negotiate with him anyways, even if they had him locked into more years.
Any starting QB is going to want more the $4M per year.
(The 15th highest QB salary is $25M.)

They think highly enough to give him a chance to compete for the job.
Saying he has a chance of winning the position isn't the same as saying he has already won it.
At the same time, saying he hasn't won it yet is not the same as saying that he can't win it.

 

I think Mason can be Ryan Tannehill good, but not Patrick Mahomes good in the right system.

If Canada has a lot of QB movement, then Mason and Haskins will not fit into his system and the Steelers will need to draft a QB.

 

While opinions can vary this is a scouting report on Rudolph when he was coming out of college:

Arm Strength
Rudolph doesn’t possess nearly the same arm talent as some of his colleagues like Rosen or Allen. He relies heavily on the timing of the routes and struggles throwing into tight windows. With a little more attention to his footwork, Rudolph can learn to use his legs and body placement more to help drive some of his throws.

Here's another one:

Scouting Report:
Big frame and has the length and physical makeup that NFL scouts look for. Below average arm strength, and up and down accuracy, and questionable decision making, but shows superb touch at times. Looks to be a project, but one that has a lot of the rare qualities like decision making that scouts find attractive.

So he's rated as having below level arm strength. I've not seen him exhibit top notch arm strength yet. But I guess we'll see. There are many more that also question his arm strength especially on throwing the out.

 

I look at it this way. When Ben played his first game, to finish a lost game against the Ratbirds, when it was over I was thinking about Ben`s play and main thought was "He looks like he knows what he is doing." He continued to do so afterwards. Saw potential immediately. More recent, saw that immediately about Mahomes.

Obvious to me is Mason has had a chance to show me "he knows what he is doing" and I don`t see it. Ok, all this is a high standard and one could only conclude this QB will never be elite.

So discussion turns to: Is it possible Mason could develop into a second tier starter in a best case scenario? Second tier QB`s don`t get you very far unless you have an unusually strong defense (think Ratbirds won SB with Dilfer at QB).

That is probably the case against Mason. He has had a chance to show if he has something special. He is a Nothingburger, not a Roethlisberger. Can`t get excited about a QB who has no chance to win a SB. Have no problem letting him continue to compete for a spot, but doubt he could even beat out Trubisky. My guess is Trubisky is better than Mason, but not by much.

 

That makes no sense at all.

a) No, they would not "have to re-negotiate" with him if he was a starter with one-year remaining on a two year contract.
b) Even if (a) were true, they now have considerably less (read zero) negotiating leverage.

Look, the Steelers even gave Landry Jones a two year deal.

c) I doubt they fear either losing or having little negotiating leverage with Rudolph. If they did, they'd have signed him to a multi-year deal.