DeShaun Watson traded to the Browns

Regarding Ward, I knew there was no chance he slips out of Top 10 long before the combine. After confirming that... Ward was going no lower than 8. Instincts and ball skills were one aspect he had in spades. However, his COD and footwork is the best I had ever seen since studying up on Champ Bailey; pseudo Darrell Green even!!



Not the same 1:1 but boy oh boy.... was it close coming out in regards to the HOF CB.

 

When a player who has character issues has concerns about your front office’s character there’s a problem

 

Oh I am quite aware. I do know of Jimmy Haslam's theme song though!! Here it is!!

 

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with somebody who doesn't know what the heck they're talking about .

 

After a few years out of the NFL no way but give me cap 1 year removed, absolutely.

 

Not sure if you read my comment wrong, but it's no question hes been more successful than anyone currently on the Steelers or Browns staff. He's led teams to a SB and two NFC Championship games.

You're responding as if I said he was better than everyone currently on the Steelers or Browns...and I do think hes better than everyone except Baker Mayfield but that may be debatable.

 

I'll say it to clear the air.

I'd take Cap in a heartbeat.


My clarification is around his time away from the game. I still would have 0 issue giving him a shot if he wanted it, I'm on board.

 

I think it’s “dumb ass”

 

And here you are

 

- Your point 1 is true, systems can make QB's. That doesn't mean that his downfall can solely be contributed to "well they changed systems". In terms of QBR (I know it doesn't mean everything) Kap would've been top 10 in 2012 and 2013, he fell to 16th in 2014, then 29th and 23rd in 2015 and 2016. I know these numbers could be worse too since the website I looked at apparently only listed one QB per team and it was stated in my last post that Gabbert out performed Kap in 2016 in QBR so he was at least 24th among qualifying QB's. So your last point about the "fact" that Kap was better than 15 starting QB's in his final season is factually false.

- Unfortunately I have a weird condition where I have a freaky recollection of football players, teams etc. I know for a fact that Joe Staley and his illustrious NFL career was still in SF in 2016 as was Navorro Bowman, Eric Reid, Ahmad Brooks, Jimmie Ward, future Steeler Vance McDonald, and former Buckeye favorite of mine Carlos Hyde. Not all "star" players, but some good names nonetheless.

- Also, I only brought up the Marino thing because I was unsure of how you were approaching "Kap is more successful than anyone on the Steelers or Browns roster". You could have meant that he was "better" when he played, or that he accomplished more having been to a Super Bowl as a starting QB. I referenced Dilfer and Marino as examples where Dilfer appears to be a more "accomplished" QB based on his post season wins and SB ring, while Marino is obviously a better player. Accomplishments don't always make you better. That was the point I was making in case I misunderstood where you were coming from.

- I'm not going to get into the "blackballing" as its at least partially self inflicted in some ways (and tbh I dont want to waste my time and sanity arguing another Kap issue outside of his play on the field).

- However... six years out of the league is far too long, and he hasn't played any other competitive football to my knowledge (guys like Tommy Maddox and Kurt Warner played in Arena and XFL leagues inbewteen NFL stints). Is he working with QB coaches? Is he doing anything more than working out and doing a few media throwing sessions (if he was, there is almost no way we wouldn't have heard about it by now)? Taking all this into account, it can be taken as sure fact that at this exact moment there are at least 64 QB's better than Kap in the NFL. Truly, it would be almost impossible for him to be better than any one single current NFL QB. Its just too hard to keep your ability when you spend that kind of time away from the game competitively. Sure he has talent (and may be able to unlock it with continued play and hard work), but there is a lot more to professional sports than being talented. Does Kap have the talent to still be an NFL QB? That I buy. Is he still an NFL caliber player at this moment in time? That is an impossibility.

I wont go much further into it since I want to keep my posts Steeler related I appreciate the conversation

 

Browns will get fragile Jonny g from 49ers. He can’t throw for four months and is good for about six non starts a year

 

Reason Collin K is not in the league is he lost a ton of weight and got worse. Reason miners dumped him. Check his last year stats and win loss rate. He stunk and the whole bs National Antham kneel was a side show to the fact he was bad and was a goner anyway

 

-I never mentioned if the stat i was referring to was QBR or Passer Rating, but even if i did mention QBR why would you want to compare the QBR of a guy that started five games to a guy that started 11?? Why don't you compare him to a guy that started 1 game while you're at it?? or that threw a pass period?? Then you might even have receivers with a better QBR. My claim that he was factually better than 15 other starters is not true if you're talking QBR, but it is factually true if you're talking Passer Rating. Which stat is more important is up for debate depending on who you ask. Just so were on the same page try and look at QBs specifically with 11 starts or more next time. i dont know if you're making up the rules as you go or not so i feel like i'm gonna need to clarify everything from now on.

- I didn't feel like i needed to mention offensive help specifically, but apparently i did. I mean defense isn't going to help him be a better QB necessarily. I meant in the sense was he surrounded by significant talent on the offensive side of the ball those last three seasons. In his last three seasons the SF 49ERS had one pro bowl selection on the offensive side of the ball in 2015 and 2016...an OL. In 2017 they had zero selections. You had two coaches get fired after one season. You can't tell me coaching and scheming doesnt play a big part in QBs progress/growth. it absolutely does. it's not a coincidence that his level of play declined drastically after Harbaugh left as well as the team as a whole. Bad coaching surrounded by lack of talent means you're gonna have a QB with struggles. I don't care who you are.

- I don't know of any language where being more successful means being better than someone. Usually more successful simply means more successful. You and i may have graduated from the same college, same GPA, but you landed a job that pays you 30000 more...same level of work and responsibilities. When i said successful that's exactly what i meant or at minimum that you achieved to a certain level. I would like to think if Kaepernick had played with the same talent surrounding him in Cleveland that Mayfield played with I believe he could have continued to have the same success he had earlier on his career meaning that he could have helped take them to another level. Like i said, I don't necessarily think he's better than Mayfield, but what would lead someone to think he couldn't have done just as well if not better knowing what we know now about Mayfield and knowing what we know about Colin if he is surrounded by talent?? i would like to think if Colin had played here in 2019 he would have had more success than Rudolph or Duck Hodges...what would make anybody doubt that?? Besides the fact that he's been more successful then either, the eye test tells me he's also better than Rudolph or Hodges. i don't care what their QBR or Passer Rating was or is compared to his.

Like you said "accomplishments dont necessarily mean that you're better", but w/o question Kaep at his best has been better and more accomplished then any current QB on the Steelers or Browns staff at their best.

- idk if he can come back after this long of a layoff either, but if he's willing more power to him. It's ok for certain precedents to be set that no one has ever seen before. i couldn't honestly think of any player who has been out that long of a time at a professional level in any sport and they came back and were at least serviceable. That being said, the fact that he appears to have been "timed out" of the league I don't believe is a coincidence either, but it is what it is. He's gonna be good either way...although something you said does bring something to light. Even though i still don't think there's 64 QBs better than him, maybe he should be trying out for a USFL team and play there first. I understand how pride would get in the way of even thinking twice about that though.

 

[QUOTE="Well, to use an analogy to draw a comparison: Jimmy G. touches a stove burner to see if it’s hot, and may burn his finger. Baker uses his tongue.[/QUOTE]

THEN, he touches it....

 

Or the CFL. It worked for Warren Moon!

 

True

 

I got a feeling this is fake news...I'm curious of the source of this statement that Reddit was able to obtain. I would imagine it would be getting talked about more on major media sports outlets if it were true, but I havent heard a word. That just seems like a very irresponsible and ill-advised thing to say....he hasnt said anything about any other teams he turned down.

Or is RedditCFB the equivalent of NFL Memes?? Idk if anyone is familiar with that site??

 

He led the Vikings to a better statistical season than Kirk Cousins has to date and I'm pretty sure there are Vikings fans that wish all that money they are throwing at Cousins would have been used to keep Case.

 

Agree 100% the stupidity displayed by the Browns in that draft was epic. You have the 1st and 3rd pick and instead of getting a potential franchise rb who checks all the boxes and then taking Mayfield if you are really enamored with him. Nope they take Baker 1st and Ward at 3. It's like the road map to continuously failing.

 

They just continue 2 get in their own way. Next year they will fire the complete coaching staff, and everything they worked for will go down the tubes....with only half the players fitting the newest system. LoL.
Rinse, and repeat.

 

My brother's kids live in Edmond, my niece was going to OSU on a volleyball scholarship before wrist injury forced her to stop playing. They were up for thier half brothers graduation the year we drafted Mason. I asked what they thought. They felt Mason could be an adequate QB eventually but laughed their buttons of about Mayfield. Everyone in OKC/Edmond knew what he was like and it wouldn't end well in Cleveland.

 

If there was a 200 acre field with one square foot of horse **** in the middle, the Browns would find some way to step in it. I wonder if someone from the front office is on their way to Baker’s house with a bouquet of roses?
The suggestion of luring Ben out of retirement for one year based on his winning percentage in Ohio is hysterical. I am going to mention it to my cousins in Cleveland. Also, that I think Johnny Football is available…..
And then I will duck quickly.

 

Barkley had one great season and one good one. Then he blew out his knee and his days of living up to his draft status are probably already behind him. The Browns built a great line without Nelson, though they haven't kept it together. They are also better off without Barkley, who isn't nearly as good as Chubb.

 

He started at least 15 games two of the last three seasons.

 

Hes another guy on here that spews the first thing that comes out of that feeble brain of his. You sort of have to take stuff he types on his here with a grain of salt. I dont know if hes smoking or drinking when he posts or what but he rarely fact checks anything he states.