Tomlin

Yes, MT came up on the defensive side of the ball but our defenses were horrific for years until we had nearly all of the players being 1st round picks. Not saying it was all MT's fault but was any of it? It seems that when our offensive is rolling, our defense sucks and vice versa. Can't seem to remember when both were on the mark at the same time except possibly the start of last year for a while.

 

I'm going to let this argument go because like I said when I started it, I'm going to tread lightly around the issue. I'm tiptoeing around the issue of race and social justice and can't emphasize my point without going out of bounds.

I have a strong opinion about this, but I'll let it go for the sake of a kinder/gentler conversation.

 

I am not a Tomlin apologist, but the... you never see Tomlin Coaching , or scheming on the sidelines is not true.
I can like, or dislike Tomlin , but will not say things that are completely false just 2 make my point.
Now you may just have missed seeing him do it, So I take back any venom that maybe misplaced in my reply.

 

Free agency isnt going to allow you to maintain great defenses or great offenses year after year so you have to be able to do really well in the draft. Steelers had a string of bad luck with draft picks there for awhile....especially in the secondary, but overall the avg defensive ranking is #8 so I would say that's pretty good...not great, but certainly not horrific...as a matter of fact he's never had a horrific defense just not one that you're going to win a SB with.


Steelers since Tomlin took over in 2007

Team Defense - Pro Football Reference
2007 - #2
2008 - #1
2009 - #13
2010 - #1
2011 - #1
2012 - #6
2013 - #14
2014- #18
2015 - #11
2016 - #10
2017 - #7
2018 - #17
2019 - #6
2020 - #3

I do agree with your statement that's it's hard to get the offense and defense on the same page...I've noticed that several times myself, but that's typical across the board in the league I think.

 

So Ill take back never and say rarely, when the camera catches him it looks like my Avatar or him smiling because something good happened. I believe this might have been the first year I've seen him with a index card, it was so rare someone even commented on it in the GDT if I remember correctly.

See if you can find a picture like these of Mike







The first picture with Tomlin holding something other than the opposing coaches jock strap or his own headset is 25 rows down that's how rare it is. I know some coaches are the play callers but google search Tomlin coaching and other head coaches you can see a difference. There is a lot of pictures of Mike standing and observing while there are the same of other coaches just not as often in my opinion. But I might be partial because I think his time should have came to an end a few years ago, but in no way is he one of the best in the league. He is avg at best and has been blessed with a HOF QB his entire tenure and above avg talent the reason for he wonderful regular season record. Again all my own opinion.

 

1) Why would carrying a clipboard around automatically make someone a good coach?
Maybe the person carrying a clipboard has a terrible memory, while the one who doesn't have a board has a decent memory. Or they know how to use the headset to get the information they need, so they don't need to stare at a sheet of paper when they should be watching the game.

2) The Dolphins have 4 losing seasons in the past 6 years. If they regularly carry around a clipboard, that would be a reason *not* to do it.

3) I found lots of pictures of Hue Jackson carrying clipboards and stacks of paper on the sideline. Didn't help him much.

 

Ive heard a lot of criticisms of Tomlin, but that he doesn’t hold a clipboard is a new one on me.

 

Well once Ben retires or maybe even this year as I’m skeptical he can still play at a high level you won’t have to wait very long. And yes I know we went 8-8 with Duck and Rudolph thanks to some miraculous defensive TDs and an incredibly easy schedule. It will never happen again.

 

Im not saying changing coaches guarantees anything but at least we would be trying to change something that clearly is not working. Once again you value regular season wins while I have higher standards. Nothing wrong with disagreeing.

 

There are no "easy" schedules in the NFL.

Overall Ben played well last year. Especially when considering he came of a major injury. I am optimistic Ben can play better this year. Ben will have a full offseason to prepare.

If the Steelers can improve the Oline and run game it will only help the offense. We'll see.

 

If that's what makes a good coach, Deuce Staley must have been better than Lombardi AND Bellychuck combined!

 

Cowher couldn’t win a Super Bowl without him... just sayin’...

 

We are doomed.

 

I know not carrying a clipboard or paper doesn’t make u a good or bad coach. To me Tomlin is never ready to make adjustments never seems to be doing much but spectating and cheering the boys on. You hear the criticism of Ben not being a film and prep guy people give him crap for it. It starts at the top for me, again my opinion. Plenty of worse coaches than Tomlin but plenty better as well and the next Tomlin is on a staff somewhere waiting on a chance. I don’t agree with the extension, I believe his message is stale and time for a new voice and direction. Thought next year could be a clean break with another collapse or a missed post season with this years schedule. But trust me if they fired him before the opener I wouldn’t be pissed.

 

So when he goes over and talks to the defense, that's not coaching or scheming ?

 

If he was so good schematically and making adjustments and all around a great coach he wouldn’t be so bad at game management and the use of the challenge flag. You can’t be a football genius like some here think he is and have such fatal flaws. Again my opinion, this is a message board where we come as fans to express. You do not have to agree with me and I don’t have to agree with you but it’s the dialogue that gets us to the next season. If the team shows a different attitude and is prepared to play week in and week out, makes some noise in the playoffs hell maybe I’ll be eating my crow with a smile, but the chances of my feelings for Tomlin and his management of the Steelers changing is slim to none. I don’t think he is the man for the job any longer. He’s a hypnotist and has some people fooled. In my opinion again.

 

Just going by the games I watch, and I have not missed 1 second of any Steelers games since 1997. When I got NFL ticket.
I've honestly have never even tried 2 search it. Also have heard him coaching on Mic'ed up.
It's cool. Each 2 their own opinions.

 

I don't think anyone suggested that Tomlin is an all around great coach. What coach is an all around great coach? All coaches have different strengths and weaknesses. All coaches make their share of mistakes. Tomlin is a better coach than you believe.

Tomlin isn't bad at game management. That's just a perception that some fans created based on a handful of bad or questionable decisions. What about the good decisions that he made?

Challenge flag isn't an indication of a good or bad coaching. Coaches have a 50/50 chance at winning a challenge. I don't believe the refs get the challenges correct at times. Sometimes coaches don't even get a chance to see the reply to challenge a play. I don't know why fans get so worked up about challenges? When did losing a challenge lose a game?

A HC doesn't help a team win 145 games in 10 years, make the playoffs 9 out of 14 years, never have a losing season, ect. by being bad or having fatal flaws. Fatal flaws suggests that a coach could never accomplish these successes with an organization. You want to see fatal flaws? Adam Gase with the Jets.

No need to watch the Steelers if you are a non believer. You can spend Steelers football days doing something else.

One day in the near future you will appreciate Tomlin. Tomlin will probably end up in the HOF. HOF is reserved for great coaches and players.

 

I understand how you’ve come to that conclusion.

As a side note, a while ago there was talk about Tomlin on the sidelines so I did a completely unscientific experiment one season.

Each game, I watched the opposition HC, and each game I alternated between assuming they were a good coach and a bad one. And here’s the thing: each game, the cameras confirmed my view. You can watch the same coach and same pictures, but if your starting point is they’re good or awful, you’ll generally see that.

(This isn’t to say that there are regular patterns to see when you take different forms of evidence. The team starting out flat is irritating as hell. The challenge flag success rate is annoying but we all know there have been some really dubious calls there).

 

I don't think Mason was worse than the QBs I mentioned, that's my entire point. Cowher was able to build a team around whatever QB you gave him if he had a good D. When Kordell flamed out in early 2002, he didn't put Maddox in and say "next man up" and have him run Kordell's offense.

Colbert's about done, too. In a couple years it will be 100% Tomlin's team. We'll see who's right then.

 

Funny thing is, each of the last three years I've had one foot on the Tomlin bandwagon, pulling myself up, when the late season collapse happens. I wonder how fast it will empty this year if the Steelers get off to a poor start against that brutal schedule.

 

I tend to agree that there are no easy schedules in NFL but 3 teams from our division made Playoffs last season and many believe it's because our division got to play the NFC Least which hands down was a terrible division. Hell, if the Eagles could have won their last game the division winner would have had a 6-10 record.

 

You can’t compare Tomlin to Gase because the situations were completely different. Tomlin got the keys to a Ferrari where Gase received a Pinto. The Steelers were a season removed from the super bowl had a veteran locker room and extremely well run organization and a HOF QB. I don’t think Gase is a good coach but the situation is totally different. Of those 145 wins 40 of those were against the bangles and browns minus a few years in Cincinnati those organizations are a s#^t show. The afc north is not as easy as the east but those two teams in Ohio have been pretty below avg for Tomlins tenure as the hc. I love Steelers football will never stop watching or rooting but the belief in a super bowl is lost as long as Mikey is the head coach. My opinion and like others here if your not playing to win in Jan and Feb then why? Regular seasons get you to Jan but when you have won 3 playoff games in the last 10 years and the way we have been bounced lately it’s time to change.

 

I don't really care about a team's record. Not much separates teams in the league from a talent and coaching perspective. That's why I don't believe there are any easy schedules. Teams have the talent and coaching to beat any team in the league. We see it year after year. We witnessed a 9-7 regular season Giants team go on to defeat and unstoppable and undefeated Pats team in 2007.