Tomlin

Yeah Jim Miller and Kent Graham were great QBs .

 

If Tomlin has a losing record for 2-3 seasons, and Art II wants to get rid of him, Tomlin being black isn't going to save his job .

 

Did you say this before the game or in hindsight?

What I know is that fans would had trashed Tomlin for replacing Ben in the playoffs.

They trash Tomlin because he helped this win and make the playoffs consistently. The reality is winning and making the playoffs consistently is the real standard this organization set for this fan base. Championships are difficult to win consistently.

 

So winning regular season games is the new standard? At least this guy is honest.

 

I know plenty of people were not happy with playing Fieler coming back from injury over a guy that had just played against the same Defense a week before...

 

Jim Miller was the designated starter in 1996, yanked week 1, Tomczak took over.

Kordell was the designated starter in 2002, yanked week 3, Maddox took over. In fact, the Steelers had top ten offenses in 2001 and 2002, one with a running QB, the other with a pure pocket passer.

The Steelers thought highly of Rudolph, who was in his 2nd season in the system in 2019. It's not like they signed him off the street.

 

None of the non-Ben QBs in this thread were special talents. All ham and eggers. And yet Cowher managed several successful seasons with such QBs, while in Tomlin's only chance to do so with an all world defense, all he could muster was 8-8.

The "results" were better because Cowher was a better coach who could build a successful team around an average QB.

You seem to be arguing that it's all about the QB and the coach doesn't matter, and Cowher just had better guys. If that's the case, then you're proving my argument - all of this success has been Ben's, Tomlin is just along for the ride.

 

Winning in the regular season is part of the equation. Teams need to win in the regular season to have the opportunity to compete for the Superbowl. Can you follow that logic?

The Steelers went 25 years from the 70's to 2005 before they won another Superbowl. The Steelers only won 6 Superbowls. So you do the math on how difficult it is to win a championship. The standard is winning and not ONLY winning Superbowls.

I'd rather take the competitive and winning seasons until the Steelers can win another championship. My standard is a more realistic approach to my sports/NFL experience.

Maybe you would enjoy having losing seasons before the Steelers were able to win another championships? That way you will really have something to complain about.

Again, I'll take the winning seasons. Winning makes the games more interesting even if the team fails to win it all. Winning gives me hope that we can win another championship.

To each his or her own.

 

Of course you are, it hurts your position. O'D was a 2nd year player who Cowher built an offense around in his first offseason.

The point was raised that Tomlin deserved credit for squeezing out 8-8 with an average QB, I pointed out several counter-examples. I didn't say they didn't have failures. If Tomlin can manage some very good seasons with average QBs, he'll get credit for them. Until then, we have nothing to go on in that regard but one 8-8.

 

The league was different in Cowher's era than it is today. Cowher did a good job. Tomlin did a good job.

Since you simply believe Tomlin is a long for the ride then Tomlin doesn't deserve any venom from you correct?

Cowher's QB's failed him in the post season same as Tomlin's QB failed him. Ultimately, turnovers were mostly responsible for the down fall of Steelers teams in the post season.

 

The Steelers didn't even get average QB play in 2019. They couldn't even fall back on the run game because the offense was designed around Ben and passing the football.

They did what they could defensively to keep the team competitive though.

 

Yes, this is exactly my argument. They rely on a superstar QB to have any offense whatsoever. When he's out, they throw up their hands.

 

Tomlin's entire teams have failed him in the post season lately. The last two games they came out as flat as a pancake and were dominated on both sides of the ball until they woke up.

 

They did not throw up their hands. They did what they could to allow the team to remain competitive. When the QB or players don't play well or turn the ball over coaches can't do much to counter those issues. That's just the way it is my friend.

 

When a team turns the ball over 7 times in two playoff games they are going to lose the game a large % of the time. Coaches can't do much to counter act turnovers. It's that simple.

 

Turnovers are a symptom, not a cause.

 

Im not talking about Super Bowls exclusively. 3 Playoff wins in 10 years....

Can YOU follow that logic?

 

Championships are just about impossible to win consistently in today's sports world. Nobody has won 3 SB's in a row, not even the great Tommy boy. Although without the injuries I'm 100% convinced the Steelers would have done it in the 70's. Fans think if their team doesn't win it all it's a wasted season. That is such BS. I would think every other fan base (except the Boston bean heads) would love to have the record the Steelers have had under Mike Tomlin.

That said, I think he had the players to win more in the Playoffs but did not have the team ready to play.

 

Even if the team won more playoffs games you would write, X amount of playoff wins in 10 years and no Superbowl win. I know how you play the "move the goal posts" game.

I am not simply concerned with playoff wins or Superbowl wins as a fan.

I am more concerned that Tomlin helped to put this team in position to compete for the Superbowl 6 out of the last 10 seasons. They made the playoffs 9 out of 14 seasons with Tomlin's help.

It took the Steelers 25 years for the Steelers to win another Superbowl even though they had 2 HOF coaches in CN and BC. Again, I'd rather have the team win in the regular season and make the playoffs than to lose in the regular season until they can win another Superbowl.

Some of you act like changing coaches will automatically guarantee a championship or more wins in the post season. The Steelers have a winning formula. I expect them to stick with that formula until they don't win anymore.

 

You forgot the worst loss of the year IMO and that is to the Bugles without their QB and favored in double digits.

 

What you are saying is not off the mark but not always the case in the real world. I have known factory management that were fired because too many workers were getting hurt. So why would this happen if the management wasn't the main issue causing their employee's to not be compliant to safety rules and then get hurt? The answer was the culture of the facility didn't stress safety more and the chain of command comes into play. And yes, our HC was hired most likely because we were 12-4 last year and regular season wins are the primary criteria for MT to retain his job and not post season success (obviously). Yes, MT is a good coach but my main contention is that he has had enough time at the helm without any significant improvements for enough years that maybe new leadership and ideas would be better. Time will tell in September and I hope we do well but hope doesn't win games.

 

With all due respect, that's not by issue. My issue is we can't win with Ben in the post season. Case still open, LOL.

 

Tomlin is a fraud, fake, fugazi. He's has people convinced he's a great coach, he is not. You never and I mean never see Tomlin coaching or scheming on the sideline. We do what we do and that's it, we don't make adjustments mid game if its not working ohh well guess we will try again with the same results. He talks a good game like he's super intelligent and smarter than everyone else but if he was smarter our schemes wouldn't be so easy to solve. If he was so smart and schematically sound we would never see a teams best WR lined up man to man with our MLB the (slow one at that), and this happens repeatedly and with the game on the line. Meaning the other team knew the D we would be in and called the formation prior to so they could get that match up ( meaning they have seen it on film multiple times).

For coming out flat in games that's not a players thing its an atmosphere thing, meaning that practice is light and not intense and that's the atmosphere that they are used to. What we see on Sundays has to happen in practice the turnovers lack of detail, it just don't show up out of the blue cause its Sunday. When its a primetime, or big game seldom do they not respond or are not ready. Why? Probably because it is stressed all week by coaches and players alike that we need to be ready, extra attention placed on the task at hand. The team is an extension of the coach I don't care what level pee wee to the pros. The Steelers are a prime example in my opinion things going great we beat our chest and taunt our opponent. When $h1T hits the fan everyone stands there like a deer in the headlights.

Now its time to find a new Avatar cause that is never happening. Barnum and Baileys just secured the lease for 3 more years.

 

They have a winning and successful formula. I don't expect them to change to much as long as they continue to win. They always tinker with the team every year in hopes to put together a championship team. When the organization losses consistently and no longer wins they will change the HC, GM, ect.

I understand how difficult it is to win in the regular season, post season, and Superbowl. I made myself clear with my position in that I will take the regular season wins/success until the Steelers can win another Superbowl. Maybe some people would prefer losing seasons instead? Maybe fans need losing season to appreciate winning in the regular season? I don't know?

You would think that people would realize how difficult it is to win in the playoffs by now. Nope they just assume with Tomlin gone the next coach will do better. The odds are against the next coach living up to what BC and MT helped this organization accomplish.

I think people that continuously have a negative view towards Tomlin eventually or subconsciously route against this team to do well. Some are just trolls to get the fan base worked up.

I couldn't care less if Tomlin was fired today or next year. I understand the reasons why he received a contract extension. They haven't tanked in 14 season with Tomlin as HC. The Steelers will have their work cut out for them finding the next franchise QB regardless of the current or next HC.