Thread only for Tomlin detractors....

Hey thesteeldeal.

As we were talking about Tomlin's experiences as a Secondary/DB coach, I dug-up up some of what I had posted on the topic of Tomlin "specializing" as a Secondary/DB coach. As you may recall, I told you I did a lot of research on this and here is part of it that indicates that Tomlin did "specialize" in coaching the Secondary/DB. Whomever you were debating with about this should have known what I posted down below. Once again Fact vs. Emotion based information.

NFL Experience:

2001-2005: Secondary/DB coach with the Buccaneers. That is five years as a defensive backs coach .

College Experience:

His coaching career began in 1995 as the wide receiver coach at Virginia Military Institute under head coach Bill Stewart. Tomlin spent the 1996 season as a graduate assistant at the University of Memphis, where he worked with the defensive backs and special teams. Following a brief stint on the University of Tennessee at Martin's coaching staff, Tomlin was hired by Arkansas State University in 1997 to coach its defensive backs. Tomlin stayed there for two seasons, before being hired as defensive backs coach by the University of Cincinnati.

If you ask me, that sure adds up to quite a bit of time as a Secondary/DB coach.So, whomever you were debating with about Tomlin, and his experiences/reputation as a DB coach, well there is part of his resume above. As the saying goes "the proof is in the pudding".


STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

Tomlin's specialty is HC after 13 seasons. He's done a pretty good job as HC.

 

Getting ready for the whining about who we draft STEELWINDS. Good to see you posting again.

On a lighter note, their are many, many rabbit ears around here when someone mentions Tomlin, Both sides of the argument.

Some posters bring up valid criticisms, some just hate the guy. My take on it is that as of now, he is getting into the hof with his current resume. He's no football guru ala Noll, Cowher, Gibbs etc. but has had success. Not many NFL coaches can make that claim.

I think he will move on with his life's work after Ben cuts the cord or will 8-8 his way out of the hof. ​

 

This:

Db coach was a stepping stone to what his specialty is. Did he retain his receiver coach experience, draft & develop stud wideouts? Stats say oh yeah but we know better.

Dungy saw a guy, a minority, that was dedicated to making it in the coaching ring & gave him a job coaching some decent dbs. Tomlin did the rest, both good & non-losing.

 

Hey STEElWINDS
I’m sorry the “ I’m not sure if he has a specialty” was tongue in cheek. A quick Wikipedia search gives you whatever it is you’re looking for. @NY STEELERFAN posted his resume as well a little earlier in the thread. It was never up for debate just a matter of wanting to admit the obvious or not. People can pick and choose whatever they want to do with information, it’s fine. The problem I had with a fellow poster was him butting in with information irrelevant to our conversation and then trying to tell me what was relevant or not because of his own opinion he was trying to push on us. Then continuing when he didn’t even take the time to get his facts straight and it eventually turned into something that usually happens when someone won’t just admit they were wrong and move on.

My stance on Tomlin is out there for all to see. I used to really appreciate the guy. He’s lost me the last 3-4 years.
I’m not a Tomlin hater. I’m a not winning a SB in 13 yrs hater. I know it’s hard. I don’t care. I’m not satisfied with mediocrity. I’m not interested in 8-8 and excuses, it’s still 13 years of my life I would like to see my team win another SB. I know, I’m a spoiled brat....IDGAS. That’s my prerogative as a fan. Has he not been given a fair shake here? How long should his leash be? Sometimes a change is needed and no I’m not talking about this year but is it unfair to at least start to question when? Coaches get fired even successful ones. Some people act like having 3 coaches in 50 yrs is some kind of magic elixir for winning. Coaches burn out,the message gets old,,their “ style “ of coaching gets old. Is it so preposterous as some make it seem that maybe his future here could or should be questioned?

 

On a side not happy anniversary Mike Tomlin, on this date in 2007 at 34 years old you became the Steelers HC....................

 

Hey thesteeldeal.

Yes, Wikipedia is exactly where I got that information. I just wanted to let you know I had your back if you needed some concrete facts. Once again, you and I are on the same page. I have nothing against Tomlin. Like we both agree, we were down with him given the first five years of his tenure. I really thought we had something special with him. However, time has a way of unveiling the truth about many things in life.

It has been well documented here, I have given credit to Tomlin here on the Board when it was due. I am not myopic like some people here who operate their views solely on a one-way street. When I run into a poster like that I try to point out the facts, nothing else. However, for some their loyalty blinds them to the truths. Folks like you, I and others here know how to debate like adults and to back up our stances with real evidence. Given that, I respect everyone on this board for the reason being our common denominator....our love for the B & G kid!

Last thing, yes, I am so bored with the "3 coaches in 50 yrs" yack. I am more concerned about quality vs. quantity and that exactly is the case with Tomlin. His time should have probably been up about three or four years ago. However, the media is infatuated with the 3-50 thing. Yes, stability is good. It is critical. At the other end of the spectrum you have to give a new administrator some time to establish his/her vision and implement their philosophical beliefs.

I taught at a school that had ten Principals in twelve years. Needless to say, for the most part, those twelve years were very chaotic and for the most part unproductive as well. A happy medium must be established to what a business has in its appointed administrator. After twelve years with Tomlin I think we all know what we have now. A player's coach that is not an X and O guy. We also know his approach is not successful anymore; at least to the high expectations that the Steelers have always had in place. Given that, he had a decent run here. I appreciate what he has done for the organization but it is time for him to move on now.


STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

Looks to me the choice was to either try running the ball with a worthless running game or throw more with a slightly better passing game. Felt sorry for these QBs always in 3rd and forever situations and the other teams already knew what we were doing. I'd like to just forget the whole 2019 season and hope we don't have 3 years in a row of 80's football.

 

Hey Roonatic.

Yes, the DB experiences that he attained were "stepping stones" for him as was working and volunteering at various youth recreation organizations (since I was 11) and substitute teaching was for me. These "stepping stones" led to me getting my Teaching jobs; which led to me becoming the Head of our school's Computer Technology Department. I would bet there are others on this board with similar life stories and that is one thing that I find fascinating about people. Each of us is a history book. A compilation of stories that have led us all through many journeys. Quite awe-striking when one really thinks about it. Just Wow IMO!

Honestly, I really do not want to get into the "minority" concept too much. Too much of a hot button topic for me. However, yes there is definitely a discrepancy as far as race, even gender, in NFL positions and as well as other businesses and organizations in life. I see it in the field of education quite a bit. You may know that I am a teacher.

One day there will be a female coach in the NFL; which personally I think would be pretty cool . Hey, this is the way I analyze people, real simple rules of thumb:

(A) What is between the ears.
(B) What is in the left side of the chest.

Prove yourself to me. I am open-minded. Let the best person lead. I do not have time to waste on meeting hidden agendas and hidden quotas. Anyone who really knows me, they will tell you I am a straight shooter. You can not ask for more than that in life.

You may have seen the image of the "Steelwinds Sports Complex" (see below) that I have posted here from time to time. Well, I grew up in the Public Housing Projects in the background. I will not reveal my race but to only say I was the minority growing up there. It was not easy at times but I had to earn my respect on many occasions. I did that by using my mind, my heart and sometimes my fists. No easy breaks. No silver spoons and that is/was fine by me. Just a lot of hard work and determination to accomplish that which I have earned in life. Feels Great!

Yes, I think Tomlin has done a commendable job as our coach. Not great, not terrible but decent. He seems to work hard at his craft, has accepted that which he has accomplished, and that which he has failed at; which I think we could all take a lesson from. That is all you can ask for.... Integrity. I think Tomlin deserves that. Anyway, enough of the philosophical stuff. Go B & G!


STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

I believe the HC had input into this. Who is responsible for not having adequate positional coaching in this most important position? I blame the HC for all wins and losses. That is what leadership is supposed to do.

 

Hey BURGH43STEL.

Yes, I agree. Given the amount of time that he has been designated as a "Head Coach" I would state that is now his "specialty". Now, how he is graded on holding that position depends a lot on the optics through the individual fan's eyes. It could be:

• Regular season records.
• Non-losing season records.
• Playoff appearances/wins-losses.
• Super Bowl wins.
• Or some other metric.

There is a wide spectrum of factors that each of us here will point to analyze and grade Mr. Tomlin. I think we should all respect and acknowledge each others' points of views without blindly dismissing them because they do not necessarily align with our own. I will say this in fairness to our coach, you do not last this many years later without having some degree of success.

For me personally, as I have gone on record many times, he has come up short based on my criteria but hey that is me. I am not saying that he is a bad or a good coach. He just has not lived up to my expectations; especially after I was huge Tomlin fan during his first five years and it seems to have tailed off dramatically since then. My bar is high....Championships. And in all honesty, I feel that with the talent that he has had to work with all of these years there should be several more trophies in that case at Heinz Field. Once again, that is me.


STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

My two cents STEELWINDS, if you care to hear it, is that Tomlin hasn't really dropped off or changed much since he was hired. What has changed is the leaders that Cowher put together through the draft & free agency is what changed. Tomlin looks for athletes & Bill looked for winners.

 

Hey Roonatic.

I like it. I like your point of view very much! And yes, I am always interested in your "two cents" (smile). You always bring good stuff to the table! I actually had this type of conversation with someone a year or so ago. Yes, lets look at some of the personalities that Cowher brought in: Hines Ward, Jerome Bettis, James Farrior, Brett Kiesel I could go on and on. You make a very, very valid point. I really think that, that crew, in part, brought home Super Bowl XL not on talent alone but the intangible of great leadership qualities. And to go a step further, they were still pretty much around for the Super Bowl XLIII Championship as well.

I, as well as others, have noticed that with the exodus of those leaders so left the "Edge" that is needed to win Championships. Talent alone is sometimes not enough. As Cowher's guys started to move on so did a lot of that Clubhouse Leadership. The question has been brought up many times during the Tomlin era (especially the second half of it): Who are the leaders on the team? And from my observations, no one really has come up with a definitive answer. Including myself.

As a coach, I never underestimate the quality of strong "leadership" and the intangibles that it brings to a team. 11 great athletes on the field at a time makes the team okay. However, those same 11, with strong leaders to bring it altogether, gives the team a much better chance of becoming great!


STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken

 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

You’re right. I put your silly comments to bed....sleep tight.

 

Yeah, it was a 'no win situation', except it was only a one score game throughout, why not try it. Maybe Whyte breaks one, he has the speed.
The play that really hurt was that GD wildcat fumble at the end of the first half on first down from the 7 yard line.
I'd like to forget the whole 2019 season too, but those wildcat fails are going to haunt me.

 

Show me the evidence of where the team tailed off dramatically since?
Here are facts:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/


I know I am not going to change anyone's mind. It's ok to expect a championship at the beginning of the season. At least try to focus on the reasons why the team failed to win a championship. It doesn't always simply boil down to the HC.

What is a fact is that the odds are against the Steelers to win a championship every year. The odds are against them to win a championship for the remainder of our lifetimes. So I will take winning consistently until the Steelers can put another championship team together. The Chiefs are visiting the Superbowl for the 1st time in 50 years. 1/3 of the league never won a Superbowl. Several teams never made it to the Superbowl.

2 locker room leaders that I think of off the top of my head are Pouncey and Heyward.

 

That's an interesting perspective. I'm trying to wrap my mind around it, but at face value, I think you're right.

As far as how he has, or has not, changed since his hire, I thought of something from his early days. He used to talk about impactful plays after the game and be able to pinpoint what each player did on the play, good and bad. It was impressive. It was one of the things I initially liked about him, that and the fact that he was honest enough with a group of us Steeler Fans to tell us, "HC of the Pittsburgh Steelers isn't who I am, it's just what I do. Who I am is a father and a husband." I respected that. And with his quirky catchphrases, I really bought into this whole shtick.

The bloom fell off that rose after a few seasons, however. And now, "HC of the Pittsburgh Steelers isn't who I am" has a completely different meaning to me. It's still what he does, however.

 

Depends on if you define 8-5 chicken Sh!t and one win away from the playoffs.

 

Exactly. I don't buy that the team lacked fight in those final three games. The offense was simply awful and the defense couldn't win the games against the Bills and Jets on its own.

 

Tomlin has had a good tenure as the coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Following two hof coaches that reached the pinnacle more than once is not an easy gig for anyone. Hoping he moves on when Ben does, it's time.

 

Hey BURGH43STEL. Always good to chat with you.

This is a little lengthy so you may want to prep for it. my post stay

Hey BURGH43STEL.

Always a pleasure to chat with you. Here we go as to the reference of: Tomlin and "tailing off dramatically".

I checked out your link and spent some time looking at each of Tomlin’s seasons which to me only further justifies my stance about our beloved Steelers “dramatically tailing off” during the last eight years of Tomlin’s tenure.

I broke down this post into two eras: Tomlin’s first five years in which I deeply supported him and his last eight years in which I felt, once again, began a pattern of our team “dramatically tailing off” under his management. This is where he began and finally lost me as a supporter. Keep in mind, some of this post should be considered subjective while other parts I would consider to be objective. Nevertheless, it is always good to chat with you.


First 5 Years

Tomlin enters as HC in 2007. We make the playoffs four out of his first five years as our HC . We win a Super Bowl and make it to another but unfortunately lose. So from a percentage standpoint, we made the playoffs 80% of the time during those first five years of his tenure. In addition, twice we went to the Super Bowl in which we won one and came very close to pulling off a major comeback in another but came up short; especially after a disastrous start to that game. That to me shows a team with heart that fought to the very end of that game.


First 5 Years

Year #1: Playoffs

Year #2: Win Super Bowl

Year #3: No Playoffs

Year #4: Lose Super Bowl

Year #5: No excuse here. We get “Tebowed”. However, one may argue that this is where the “Tailing Off” began.



Next 8 Years

Year #1: (#6 overall): No Playoffs.

Year #2: (#7 overall): No Playoffs.

Year #3: (#8 overall): Playoffs. Of all BS we lose to the freakin’ rats.


Side Notes:

• It was a home game against a hated rival.
  
  
• We had never lost a playoff game to a division opponent until then. Disgusting as I say .We lost rather convincingly as the score would indicate. Totally embarrassing.
  
  
• Now to some degree of fairness to Tomlin, as I recall, Bell was hurt and did not play in that game. That totally changed the dynamics of our Offensive game planning; which in big part led to an unfavorable outcome. However, it is called having a “contingency plan” in place which obviously there was none.

Year #4: (#9 overall): Playoffs. Blow a fourth Quarter lead to “old man” Peyton. The blown lead starts to become a “trademark” with the “Defensive-Minded” Tomlin.

Year #5: (#10 overall): Playoffs. However, we pull our usual roll over and play dead to the Cheats and lose in convincing fashion. Embarrassing. Nuff said!

Year #6: (#11 overall): Playoffs. This time we get “Bortled”. We lose at home…. again. We score 42 points but give up 45. How does that happen? Embarrassing….again! Especially when Jacksonville only scored 10 freakin’ points the week before as they beat Buffalo 10-3. How does the “Defensive-Minded” Tomlin explain that?

Year #7: (#12 overall): No Playoffs. This one burns my rear-end to this day. We have a 2.5 game lead going into the second half of the year and suffer a complete “meltdown” to lose the division and thus miss the playoffs. Again, late leads blown, and not mentioned in this post until now, but the trend of losing to “inferior” opponents for years now reared its ugly head again. Another great Tomlin “trademark” over this eight-year span.

Year #8: (#13 overall): No Playoffs. Excuses, Excuses, Excuses and Excuses. Do not want to hear about injuries, departures etc. We had an 8-5 record. We controlled our playoff destiny and lose last three games. Talk of COTY at 8-5. Sound of crickets at 8-8. Totally Unacceptable and again, embarrassing.


So, in conclusion, yes I feel comfortable saying, and I know this is subjective but also factual, that we did “tail off dramatically” from the first five years of Tomlin’s tenure when compared to his last eight. Let's look at some of the overall concepts/facts to support my stance:

• We did not make the playoffs as frequently: 80% of the time compared to 50% of the time.
  
  
• We were not anywhere as near competitive when we made the playoffs when comparing the two eras.
  
  
• We have not even sniffed a Super Bowl appearance during Tomlin’s last eight years as our HC. Where in Tomlin’s first five years of his tenure we make it there twice.
  
  
• Tomlin’s trademark during these last eight years becomes one of blowing leads late in games and losing to teams that, at least on paper, we should have beaten.

There are other tendencies of "dramatically tailing off" that I could list but I will leave it there as this post is already long enough.


STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

Well Duck played like chicken the last 3 games