Who's our worst 1st round pick in last 20 years?

Hey Vox Ferrum.

Yes, a lot of scenarios to play out here. Obviously, because football is a capped sport we cannot keep everyone. Nor does everyone deserve to stay. We both know just how important it is to have two solid OLBs to our "D" scheme. Given that, yes the entire 11-man "D" that we put on the field have to work in unison (like the "O") for us to get Max-Performance from that side of the ball. We see the difference that Minkah has made up to this point. Hopefully, he is the real deal (so far, so good!) and is with us for years to come. I personally, am fed-up with looking for that complimentary OLB which was my original thought. If it is Bud and TJ than great. If is not Bud then the search begins all over again and more "wasted" time. TJ is a no-brainer. My money is on him getting contract #2.

STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

No doubt. Honestly as much as we need to look at the O, you definitely have to get past the sentimentality and not pay Conner, and really take a look at JuJu before you decide to invest any big money. I like them both, but the O is another chapter that needs rebuilt long hall. Right now we have 4 core players on D, Minkah, Besh, TJ, and I would include Nelson. Would love to put Tuitt there, but the injuries are a big concern. Nelson is locked up, we have a couple of years with Minkah and Bucs, TJ is the one we have to keep.

 

Marino's team reached the Super Bowl his second year, not his first, and it's a bit unfair to hold that against him. Even a quarterback can only control so much.

It's a hell of a leap to think that Rivera could have even come close to matching Marino, who is rightfully in the Hall of Fame.

 

Something to do with his spine

 

I dont doubt that. If I had to guess 20-30% of 1st rounders are pro bowlers at some point. The top 16 is probably better than the bottom 16.

I was just providing some context to the players considered for the worst 1st rounders award. Burns for example was taken late and given the options on the board when we took him... drafting him seems less of a mistake. There were not many studs in that draft.

 

Historically we are one of the better teams in the draft. My suspicion is we among the best - period. Everyone will have mistakes. Seems like lately we’ve had more misses then the usual. Wonder how much of that is influenced by coaching as well. Some coaches seem to do a better job then others getting the most out of the talent they have... some coaches seem to know how to develop avg players into stars.

 

Easily Jarvis Jones. There were so many red flags with him, he should never have been drafted in the 1st. It was almost a guarantee he was never going to produce for us. He always had a chance in the right system, but he was not the right guy for what we wanted him to do, not even close. Combine that with his noted lack of strength and health issues, and Tomlin and Colbert must have been drunk when they drafted him

 

I agree with most of that, but I'm not sure there is any system that would have worked for Jarvis Jones.

 

Looking back, you're right. At the time he was drafted, I knew he just wasn't right for our system, but thought he could fit in with other teams, assuming he could stay healthy of course.

 

Gotcha. I see your point. I'm thinking more in hindsight that his best position was outside linebacker in a 3-4, but he just wasn't good enough at it to justify where he was drafted. He really never should have been more than a backup.

 

Hey Vox.

Yes, I am not sold on Connor. Not because of his ability. He is better than average IMO. Just nothing special. Teams had to "game plan" for Bell. Like him or not, he was the real deal in our system. 80+ catches per year. Ben's favorite "go to guy" in emergencies or for set plays as well. We blew it with Bell, plain and simple. Brown blew it for himself but I also have to ask how much was the Brown debacle a part of the coaching staff (primarily Tomlin) "enabling" him and getting way with stuff.

I am a teacher. There are some parallels here. The more that the students see that can get away with the more they will test you. That is what I think happen with both Brown and Bell. Definitely more so Brown. They both could still have been here IMO and I am infuriated that they are not. Those that thought it was going to be a seamless transition w/o them were soooooooooooooooooooo! wrong. I tried to tell people. Now look at the shambles of our "O". Add in Ben's injury, the "Invisible" TEs, horrible coaching, especially on the "O", side and this is what we now see (in part) as to Tomlin's ability/performance really looks like. It was like one day we were loaded on "O" which we were. With B-B-B-B(Bryant), Heath, Jesse James, strong O-Line (still is, just not as good since Munch left). This was just a little more than a year ago folks!

Really disappointing considering now that the "D" looks formidable. Combine the "O" of the recent past, with the new and approved "D", and boy we have a solid team. Oh well, what could have been.

STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

the fact that he only played a handful of games in the nfl is a testament to the know-how of the coaches. the fact that jarvis jones did play a down is the exact opposite. jones was possibly the worst pick ever.

now, i don't want to be one who lays everything negative on mt[although i usually do] but in this case why not. if a player is drafted in rds 6 or 7 chances are the hc has little if any direct involvement. but, if a player is a high profile day 1 pick that most certainly is not the case.

picks like jones, burns, dupree, edmunds in rd 1 are beyond belief. clearly, i would guess, the hc has substantial input on these atrocities.

as some have pointed out dupree has shown up a bit this season and edmund's is a work in progress. nonetheless neither are 1st rd players.

dupree is a reminder of keenan lewis a 3rd rd pick in 2009. he did absolutely nothing for 3 years then suddenly showed some effort in year 4. then left as a fa after he swindled the steelers most of his time here. dupree seems to be of the same ilk.

i'm aware of the stats showing the difficulty of the draft. my argument is wtf are these mistakes doing out on the field. are these coaches blind?

btw: here is the rest of the 2009 draft. mt's 3rd year. get out your excedrin pills.

1 32 Ziggy Hood DT Missouri
3 79 Kraig Urbik T Wisconsin
3 84 Mike Wallace WR Mississippi
3 96 Keenan Lewis DB Oregon State
5 168 Joe Burnett DB Central Florida
5 169 Frank Summers RB Nevada-Las Vegas
6 205 Ra'Shon Harris DT Oregon
7 226 A.Q. Shipley C Penn State
7 241 David Johnson TE Arkansas State

all 4 of these picks discussed here have been since 2013. 4 out of 7 --- really not good.

btw: where has all the yapping to get rid of butler[who i strongly supported the past few years] gone. hmm! now the D is the talk of all the national media.

over the years i have been wrong 99 out of a 100 on opinions about the team. on butler [who i did not believe was responsible for the demise of the steelers] i am taking at least a half a point.

 

How did we blow it with Bell? Gave him fair compensation to become a Steeler legend. Bell kept moving the goalpost, kinda like what Lucy does to Charlie Brown. Didn't Bell blow it with his ego?

 

For those interested in the whole aspect of how First Round picks perform; here is the most up to date source I could find. A very good read for those draft enthusiasts interested;



https://theriotreport.com/scout-camp-2018-about-the-author/




Again, regarding Terrell Edmunds, for me, read my response on page one. For that matter, pop in some All 22 tape before the Minkah trade vs after the Minkah Trade. There is an IMMENSE difference in the way Terrell is playing.

 

Maybe you don't remember but Senoir Sack was well on his way to being a Pro Bowl player
for many years before he wrapped his 280Z around a telephone pole.

 

I voted Burns because he had most everyone fooled. I was told I was wrong and I didn't know what I was talking about during Burns' rookie season when I said he wasn't good. I saw how he played and the way he ran and he was fortunate in that he faced poor QBs and guessed right early on. Once teams had tape on him toward the end of the first season he began giving up those long TDs he is famous for. In season 2 the Steelers lead the league in giving up the most TDs of over 50 yards, 40 yards and 30 yards, just amazing and that was mostly on Burns.

I'm seeing a lot of those issue already in Edmunds and I hope I'm wrong but I don't see him being more than a back up and special team player. He is still missing tackles but that can be corrected and improved, his biggest issue is his coverage ability or lack there of. Even the passes he defends aren't good, he never looks for the ball and just throws his hands up in the air.

The pass play he defended against the Rams was PI without question but we got lucky as it wasn't called. He never looked for the ball and made contact while throwing his arms up, this is after 1.25 seasons starting. The Tyler Boyd catch against the Bengals was horrible, he was in position and saw the ball coming and then turned away and threw his arms up in the air while Boyd jumped and made the catch. Edmunds didn't even jump, he stood on his tip toes, this is just poor technique that he isn't getting better at.

I don't think he is the worst 1st round pick but he does belong to be on the list. I can also say that if he doesn't improve by leaps and bounds next season that he probably won't get the 5th year option picked up. I know some will say his play improved, it did, it went from poor to below average, there is hop he can become average but his issues are going to keep him from being a playmaker. He would be ok as an "in the box" safety but nothing that requires him to play any kind of coverage.

 

I am going to have to go with Artie, atleast Jarvis played
on a consistent basis. Somethings to think about, Artie's mother passed away
weeks before the draft he has raised his sibling. This is a lot on your plate
when you are 21 years old even if you are making what he has made. Maybe he should get on with his
life's work which maybe in the social welfare department helping out other young kids
in similar situation.

 

That was a projection and you're comparing him to one of the best quarterbacks in NFL history. It seems unlikely Rivera would have been worth passing on Marino even if he hadn't been injured. He could have still been a hell of a player and not lived up to Marino.

 

Hey Roonatic.

One thing that you will find about me is that I am a "Straight-Shooter" Yes, I will admit Bell played a lot of games with the whole situation. And yes, I agree with you that: "Bell kept moving the goalpost". Yes, every time we seemed to have the deal set-up Bell always added something new to make it "not happen". I just feel that there was someway somehow that management could have made it work.

Hold your breath now (smile). I also feel that to "some" degree, that management somehow screwed up the Brown situation as well by enabling him to get away with his personal agenda. I think that both players could still be here right now if different approaches were taken to make it happen for both.

Maybe it was just "Wishful Thinking" on my part. I am just frustrated that within a little more than a year's time we went from having a great Offense with: B-B-B-B (Bryant), Vance, Jesse, a Strong O-Line to the current product taking the field. What makes it more frustrating is that the new and improved Defense "has finally arrived it seems". Combine the new "D" with the "O" of yester-year and we have one dynamic team. Take care.

STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

I appreciate you responding east side kid. I can't agree with the Steelers could have made it happen though. Bell was asking for too much. No way we could have met his demands w/o upsetting the applecart.

Art ll personally went to Florida to talk with AB, not many owners are as concerned about their players. AB wanted out & Rooney obliged. Wise decision that wasn't wrong for either party.

Don't get me started on the paper Bs, things could get ugly...lol

These are just my opinions that help me through that tragedy. Again thank you for your opinion.

 

Hey Roonatic. Good conversation!

Yes, I know the what could have what would have been wishing. Man we were really close to putting a "complete" team altogether IMO. We really did have a "Dynamic O". However, even when they were all together, or on paper, we underachieved IMO. Remember the we can score 30 points a game talk, talk, talk, and talk and very rarely did it happen. That alone was frustrating. On paper, with what we had we probably could have scored 40 points a game. However, not with this coaching staff. We totally, IMO, were very capable of 30+ points a game no question.

Yes, I forgot about Mr. Rooney's trip to Florida. Yes, that was an exceptional outreach as you pointed out.

A Little Fun Here: Off topic for a second. What do you like better STEELWINDS or The East Side Kid? Maybe I should do a poll (laughing). I only ask because you are the first poster to address me initially as The East Side Kid. And that is totally cool. I am just having a little fun here and will definitely keep it as is below, as it has always been. Take care my friend.

STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

I like ESK, leaves the noobs wondering.

 

Hey Roonatic.

Thanks for the feedback on the board name. Will still keep as below. Still, thanks for your input.


STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid

 

Troy Edwards was a great college receiver but just a journeyman in the NFL. Jarvis Jones never lived up to potential. I have to vote Edwards, but with a little more time to evaluate Artie Burnt may be an even bigger bust than either one. A first round draft pick who can’t play at the level of an undrafted free agent.