Tomlin defenders - a must read (article)

Thanks for providing any logical feedback.

 

I’m going to go on record as saying the article might bring up valid points. It might, but I wouldn’t know because I didn’t read it. I can surmise what it says. The Steelers are not going to fire Tomlin in mid season. It won’t happen. So, why read the article.

 

Reading that article, I felt like half of my posts have been stolen

 

This debate will never die, but I'm game...
#1 - Steelers were 8-8 not 6-10 in Cowher's last year.
#2 - Tomlin certainly deserves credit but the key players on this team were very much holdovers from the 15-1 and SB team. Sure, Cowher didn't win with that group in 06, but it's not like Tomlin was rebuilding the Browns. He inherited an absolutely loaded team.

IIRC Steelers record was:
2004 15-1 (Rookie Ben)
2005 11-5 (Super Bowl vs Seahawks)
2006 8-8 (Motorcycle Ben / Cowher last year)
2007 10-6 (Tomlin first year)
2008 12-4 (Super Bowl vs Cards)

Key 'Cowher players' on the 2008 SB team were:
Off - Ben / Willie Parker / Ward / Holmes / Heath
Def - Harrison / Farrior / Troy
Coordinators - Arians / Lebeau (Arians wasn't OC during the 05 run but was on the staff)

In fact, that situation is all the more reason we should consider a move away from Tomlin. Cowher's 2006 team underperformed but was still immensely talented. Something seemed 'off' that year as Cowher didn't appear to be getting the best from his players. Tomlin was a change of scenery and 2 years later, they win the Super Bowl. I don't think this is nearly as good as the 05 or 08 teams but clearly Tomlin is not getting the best out of these players.

 

The Jaguars were one of the top three teams in the league last season, so losing to them doesn't make the Steelers' season a mirage. They were one ridiculous overturned penalty away from beating the Patriots. They lost to the Bears in overtime. You ramble on and on about the games they could have lost and ignore the losses that could have easily been victories.

They won 13 games last year. That is the reality.

The drop-off this season doesn't change what they were last year. This isn't the same team. They are missing their All-Pro running back. Their All-Pro guard missed a game and played hurt last week. Their starting right tackle missed a game. Their best cornerback missed a game. Their starting safety was hobbled and came off the bench in the opener, started one game, then missed the last two. Their nickel cornerback missed part of the Tampa game and all of the Ravens game.

When you repeat the same flawed argument a hundred times does not make it true.

 

2008 team>2005 team

 

I do think 2008 was better than 2005. People forget that one of the biggest issues in 2006 was Roethlisberger's health. That was the year of the motorcycle accident and the emergency appendectomy. He wasn't right the entire first half of the season and by the time he came around, it was too late.

 

Won't argue with that, but largely because
2008 Ben > 2005 Ben.
2008 Troy > 2005 Troy
2008 Harrison > 2005 Porter

 

It was a joke.

 

Next man up.

 

Yeah, that doesn't work nearly as well as Tomlin seems to think it does.

 

It would be nice to see this D at 100%, but I'm not sure that's going to turn things around. I don't even know who the starters are or should be anymore.

 

Seems to me your are correct. The rotation never seems to give us an incline of who starts where. Sure there are injuries which require backups but I honestly feel like tomlin has no idea who he wants and where.

 

Then you aren't paying attention. The starting lineup is clear. They just haven't all been healthy together yet.

What they want is Burnett at safety with Davis, Burns at corner with Haden and Hilton in the slot when they go nickel. Edmunds would only be playing when they go to a sixth defensive back with Burnett sliding up to linebacker.

The front seven is pretty clear. Sure, they use their reserves on the line and at outside linebacker some of the time, but Heyward, Hargrave, Tuitt, Bostic, Williams, Watt and Dupree are clear starters.

I'm not saying this is some magical solution. That group still isn't anything great. They haven't been able to play it that way. The closest they got was the opener until Haden got hurt in the fourth quarter, which was around the time the Browns rallied. The starters all played, but Burnett was coming off the bench because he had missed so much of the preseason.

 

As hard as I tried to say it as well. I know I probably couldn't but this guy said exactly how I feel...
https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/10/4/17935648/i-honestly-like-tomlin

 

The players don't fear him and what he may do ,let alone respect him and thats a problem.

 

You're probably right about that.

 

I agree with some of what you're saying but where I don't agree is where you are saying things could be worse. They could be worse but they could also be better. In a sport where your best bet is to build through the draft you either want to be really bad for a while or a championship caliber contender. Right now in our current state we are neither ,which leaves us mediocre. Which is the last place you want to be. Sports to me is about winning championships and not being satisfied with being middle of the road. Seeing how this team seems to need supreme talent at every position because our coaches are incapable of "coaching" anyone up. It would be more beneficial to the future of this franchise for things to get worse....in order to get better.

 

Which is why I added the part about injuries. .. They have different players for different packages and sub packages. This is what I was referring to. Perhaps I was not clear enough.

 

You said you don't think Tomlin knows who he wants starting. Outside of the cornerback spot opposite Haden, the coaching staff has made it very clear who they want out there. Injuries have kept that from happening.

Even at cornerback, they want Burns starting. They keep rotating guys in there because Burns and Sensabaugh both keep failing at their jobs.

 

Agree, in all areas except for the O-line. 2005 O-line > 2008 O-line

 

I've never been a fan of Tomlin. However I will say that he can't do anything about Bell's holdout and I actually liked that the oline threw Bell under the bus because he deserved it. I would also say the personal fouls for unnecessary roughness are often the fault of the league rules as much as anything else. Everything else is absolutely true. I will also point out that the only reason the Steelers even went to a second super bowl under Tomlin is because Baltimore collapsed ala Cinci in the second half of the divisional game. Let's also not forget the Steelers built up a huge lead against the Jets that year only to watch it disappear in the second half ala the Bucs two weeks ago. Tomlin's whole career has been one of underachieving against poor teams and only playing one half of football per game. Rarely do they ever put together a complete game from start to finish. It is either blow the first half and try to make a comeback or build up a lead and quit at halftime. This year that seems to be down to one quarter per game. They play the second quarter and that's it. Say what you want about Cowher, but it is no coincidence that as the players on his teams have moved on, the team has been getting worse. I agree with one of the other posters who said last year's 13-3 was a mirage. I think ownership has to swallow their pride on this and get rid of the whole coaching staff and start over. Sure it goes against their image of consistency, but it will also help get rid of the new image of team-drama.

 

I still do not think he knows what he wants relative to sub packages.. I see the depth chart but I see changes which are outside of injuries. So yeah he does not

 

They are going to mix in their reserves, such as when you see Alualu and McCullers up front or Chickillo at linebacker. They keep juggling corners because Burns, Sensabaugh and Sutton have taken turns sucking. They know what they want. They aren't getting to see it in part due to injuries and in part due to some players failing miserably.