Article says Haley and Butler should be on notice

And who is the head of that dept? Head coach. Tomlin's teams lack discipline and focus. End of story.

 

Yes he most certainly is to blame for the lack of scoring or is it Haley. I am not sure anyone can actually answer this question with any kind of certainty. Playcalling is lack luster and I for one would like to know just exactly who is in charge. Is it Ben or Haley or a combination of the pair making up these dumb a ss plays.. He has arguably the best Oline of his career and winding down ( personally I feel like this will be his last year). He does not look as fast at making reads as he once was. That much is for sure . Ball still has zip on it but it's just not getting to where it needs to go ( possible ben needs some glasses lol) Is he still as elusive as he once was? Not sure yet. He has made a couple miss tackle which is his bread and butter.

 

It is Haley's and Tomlin's job to get Ben to perform. The have not. Haley is terrible.

 

Coach T and Co. do have talent,talent in making losing teams such as the Bears look superficial. Before the flip of the coin last night i knew the Bears were going to be the team they are, the team that we've given hope.. false hope! You can sugar coat this team all you want with compassion or maybe it's confectioners, anyway much leadership is in need for all 3 phases. People say awe come on!! we only lost one game.. Yes one, and that one is now closer to two.

 

I would not complain if this was the final year of Haley ball.

 

Blast, see something we agree on.......lol

 

I like Haley, no matter what people are always gonna complain about playcalling. Here is the thing he don't send a play in with the thought it isn't gonna work, it's more of a chess game and I feel at any point a bad play could be a good play with proper execution.

 

I would not say Haley is terrible.


I am wondering though if Ben really is zeroing in on Antonio like he is letting on though.

 

Play calling is definitely a chess match, but Haley is overmatched more often than not. He’s had 2-3 winning seasons as an oc. I expect better with the weapons we have. We won a sb with Arians and far less talent. We are lucky to sniff the playoffs with vastly superior talent and Haley. Don’t get me wrong part of our struggles definitely fall on Ben’s shoulders, but Haley hasn’t helped the matter at all. First goal empty set? Second and goal empty set? 8-9 men in the box and 4 straight wr screens?

 

I do agree to a point however like you point out we have "vastly superior talent" these guys should execute, jmo. My problem is I can't tell if Ben is changing the call or if Haley is sending in some head scratchers. Also is Ben looking off the primary receiver looking for the big play? The connection between Ben and Haley sucks and I feel imo this is why we are out of sync. Ben has the money, has the rings, has the cheers from the fans I feel now he wants total control over the offense. Again that is just my opinion, I love watching Ben play love what he has done in his time here. Nobody in this game could have taken the beating he has and still be a top level qb.

As far are Arians goes I feel this is a lot like the Tomlin/Cowher thing. BA called some pretty bad stuff, but loved to throw down field. The problem was Ben took a pounding while trying to play that way. Haley came in and changed all that and since he has been here Ben has been hit/sacked career lows.

What is kinda funny is there was a thread going on how our offense stinks cause Bell is rusty and sat out and we need to get Connor in more. Well my question is with all the Ben retirement talk maybe Ben's heart isn't in it anymore, where is all that talk? I am just saying Haley can call all the good or bad plays he wants we have the talent on any play for it to be a good play. This isn't about coaching this is about execution and our offense is not showing any.

Think about it we have one of the best olines in the game, we have one of if not the best wr & rb in the game. Have an experienced qb with 2 rings and some very good supporting cast around these guys.........at what point do we stop blaming the coaches and start blaming the stars?????

 

it was Arians and now Haley. There is alot of blame to go around and we love to ***** but seriously is Haley the be all and end all?

 

Now your singing my anthem. The most poignant part of the post for me was how you point out the obvious lack of offense.

 

I think Ben does become a fan of certain personnel groupings and the potential he sees there. Heck after the draft even I was seeing the potential of a single back 1 TE, 3 WR set where you have Juju in the slot and Brown outside. You run Bryant deep, have the other two cross with Juju slanting to the sideline, Brown on a crossing route, James on the seam and just have Bell find the soft spot. The damage you could do with it just imagine. However they just aren't clicking.

One of the things I have been noticing is that plays that have been really successful for them in the recent past have largely been abandoned and not because defenses have them figured out or the players aren't good enough. They simply stopped using them. Remember the bunch set near the goaline where the two outside receivers slant in and the slot receiver slants underneath towards the sidelines. Devestating play that is hard to defend as they outside guys basically run that pick play and the speedy slot route underneath beats a defender to the endzone. How about a jumbo set where they sell the run hard and Ben hits the TE or FB after they fake their block or in the old days when Ben still had some quickness he rolls away after the fake and either spirit for the endzone or hit the third TE after the fake. They don't use those plays anymore.

 

You're right there does seem like certain plays they run should continue to be run until the D stops them. It just seems to me that our play calling has no purpose or rythm. Just a hodge podge of plays none seeming to have anything to do with the others. Our ability to adjust in game is terrible even on D ,it seems we go into the game with a plan and if the D throws a monkey wrench in our plans we are stuck,that's why our O is inconsistent and underperforming. I don't think it helps to build a rythm in play calling and execution when we go 3and out so often. If we can stay on the field and extend drives we would see a much more potent O.....gotta move the sticks.

 

I think much of the blame has to fall on Ben checking out of plays that are sent in. I'm thinking of the KC playoff game where he admittedly checked out of a run play on the one yard line when the Chiefs had been unable to stop Bell and promptly threw a pick .

I have a feeling this is happening a lot. Haley isn't blameless though. The screen passes against a single high safety vs. Cleveland were head scratchers for sure.

 

Any time the offence struggles you need to blame the QB, OC and head coach. All have major input into play design and play calling. Sure, Haley sends the plays in, but at the same time, he knows what Ben likes and doesn't like. That is a factor. He also needs to take into account what Tomlin wants to do from game to game. Haley doesn't solely decide everything about the offence.

I'm a bit of a Haley supporter, but at the same time, I recognize that he's probably nothing special. We could replace him with another good OC and not miss a beat (except for the learning curve). A lot of the stuff that we were unhappy about with BA is some of the same stuff we're seeing now with Haley. Is it Haley, Ben, Tomlin, some kind of combination? When Haley first came to town, the offence was focused on taking what the defence was giving us, which was more short throws. The last two years we've gotten away from that. Is Haley changing, or do you think Ben is resisting that style? Is Ben bitching to Tomlin, who then persuades Haley to include more vertical plays? There's a lot we simply don't know and will never know.

What I do know is there's not enough time left in Bens career to change OC's. For better or worse, we're going to have Tomlin, Butler and Haley around until Ben is gone. At that point, ownership might choose to make some changes along with a new QB. Or maybe not, either way, it won't happen as long as Ben is still here. He's too damn stubborn to change OC's at this point

 

I've always believed this is one of Tomlins shortcomings, not the OC or DC. It seems like Tomlin is a little too arrogant for his own good. He's going to jam his style down the throat of the opponent no matter what.

 

I think your on too something Shaner.

 

You guys are trying to be psychologists in guessing Ben's or Haley's mindset and I think it is much simpler. I honestly believe that our ENTIRE coach staff does no game planning at all, they look at game tape to correct fundamental mistakes and look for tendencies but that is it. I think what we see is scripted plays for the first 11 or 12 plays which is why we see things like empty sets on 3rd and 1 a lot because when you go by the script down and distance doesn't matter. The biggest problem with this type of deal is there are plays where the defense is set up in a way that the called play has little chance of succeeding. I also don't believe Ben checks out of the scripted play call, instead they try to use what I like to call the P. Manning disguise, and that is the going up to the line and calling out a new cadence and then having a play go in motion or fake the motion and then run the play. You might think I'm crazy but look at how the offense plays, if they move the ball on the first and second play they look like they get into a rhythm but if the first or second down play gets stopped we end up seeing the back to back 3 and out series that have become a trademark of bad games. I really think the bad games for the offense start when the scripted plays are out of whack and the lack of game planning has them calling just anything, and a lot of the long passes are desperation to hopefully score or get the defense to be less aggressive. The quick score thing happens because it is evident Tomlin doesn't trust this defense, and one thing I noticed going back to last season is that when the team is in a tight game, if the offense scores you can almost bet money the opposing team will score on their next possession, it is almost a given and so far this season it has happened in 2 of the 3 games.

 

Agree with this sentiment. Lots of speculation when the reasons for a lot of our problems are there in the game tape.

If a team can post consecutive winning seasons without game planning, you might wonder why anyone bothers.

In other words: this isn't a very plausible claim.

There's another thread here calling Tomlin crazy for wanting to defer in OT. In other words, for him trusting his defense (rightly or wrongly).

I think you need better evidence for some of these suggestions.

 

Ben is not and never has been a "heady" football player in the mold of a Manning or Brady. His physicality has won us some games, but I believe his mental approach has also cost us a few games. By no means is Ben dumb, but I truly believe when it comes to football intelligence he's not the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

That's always been my suspicion as well.

 

Coaches in the league will always be 2nd guessed when the team loses and sometimes when they win. It's difficult to say where coaching fails. What's clear is when the players don't execute properly.

For example, Ben missed open WR's badly at times in the Bears game. He made bad decisions at times too. Missed and poor tackles by defenders were also an issue vs the Bears. There were special teams mistakes made by the players. Those were just a few things I noticed that went wrong on the field. Coaches look bad when players don't execute.

I believe that Ben studied the opposition. Ben's biggest issues were with poor execution and bad decision making at times. The offense will be better if Ben can improve in those two areas going forward.