Nice take from Tomlin

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-...tomlin-thinks-steelers-defense-is-on-the-rise

Answers a lot of speculation we have on this board.

 

Results speak louder than the same Tomlin has been spewing for the past few years. The secondary is garbage ( finishing 30th in that department is proof) and they aren't looking for outside help? lol He'd rather draft another turd, if the player pans out, then they bolt to another team.

 

as i said in another thread, we got rid of some of the problem children. ( blake, allen and thomas) cockrell got in here late but now has a year under his belt and will have a full camp. golden played pretty well and has advanced in a position role. grant should be in a better place in year two as should walton, lyons and philon and chickillo. fort should help bolster the ILB spot and ST's. most teams that add a lot of FA's don't do diddly, so i think keeping and improving our own picks can only help. we will add players but we are still building for a longer term process, as we should. everybody wants us to make a one year run and thats not how the steelers do it.

 

Here is every Steeler fan watching the upcoming pre-season games and worried about injuries to key players:

 

I'm with you; I'm tired of his damn cliches and such. I want talent in the secondary and I"m tired of this "cutting corners" mentality he and Colbert have had in addressing our needs in the secondary. Just use a first round pick on a cornerback and be done with it. Sh!!!t. I"m just so tired of his bullsh!t.

AND TOMLIN, ...GO FIND A WAY TO STOP BEING HARBAUGH'S *****!! Can you do that????

 

Tomlin actually holds a slight edge head to head against Harbaugh.

 

Mac, Golden did play OK and certainly better than Allen... but why didn't he start then. Why not put the better player on the field to gain experience?

Same old story.

Allen was a solid backup but he was 33 last year and played poorly in a starting role.

Maybe see if the 25 year old is the future and if not he would not have played worse.

Same thing with Gay and Boykin.

Gay is going to be 34 when his contract expires. They both play the slot. OK maybe the younger and cheaper player is the better option?

Gay has 8 years experience in a Steelers defense and was HORRIBLE his first few seasons.

Boykin was better than decent in his less than half a season of playing time.

This is just more hanging on to veterans BS that the team is supposed to be going away from.

Losing McLendon hurts the D. Losing Spence and Garvin hurts the depth and Special Teams.

Golson is an unkown he could be another Shamarko or he could start outside and do a great job. I can't see the D improving unless Golson steps up big time or Dupree does.

Heyward, Timmons, and Tuitt are the D's best players but are playing close to their full potential. Shazier could be more consistent which would help.

Even if the Steelers draft a key player on D next year he probably won't be a factor until year 2.

Yes the D COULD be better but right now it looks like it probably won't be. Expect any coach to say his team will get better not worse.

 

More importantly the post season edge too

 

Does that make Harbaugh Tomlin's *****!!

 

Golden was kinda an afterthought. The plan was for Thomas to take a big step forward, and when that didn't happen they had Allen as the back up plan. Injuries and the mental incompetence of Shamarko thrust Golden into a starting role. By all means he out performed expectations, but he is by no means "the future" at the safety position. He's turned out to be really good depth and an excellent ST player. The fact that we knew what we were getting out of Allen and really didn't with Golden (because he never played any meaningful snaps before) had a lot to do with it.

Gay vs. Boykin is a bad example here. Gay is just a better player than Boykin. He can also play outside and inside. Boykin can't. Gay didn't allow a TD this past year and has taken something like his last 6 picks back for a TD... We're gonna bench this guy for Boykin? Lol no. You'd have an argument if you were talking about keeping Gay outside in the nickel and replacing Blake with Boykin in the slot and put Cockrell outside. Idc how bad Gay was in his first few years in the burgh. He played over Boykin because 31 year old Gay is a better corner than 25 year old Boykin.

McLendon was a decent player. He's not irreplaceable tho. We can find someone in the draft that plays some decent NT and hopefully can rotate in with Tuitt and Heyward in the nickel. We still have McCullers and we don't know who we will draft. Plenty of time to see whether only not the loss of McLendon hurts us that badly.

ST players are replaceable. Garvin will hardly be missed. We literally just signed his replacement. Losing Spence hurts a little, but it's not the end of the world. He was a solid STer and a fine enough back up ILB. We still have V Williams who does and alright job and others on the PS who could possibly take a step forward and help the team out. If losing Spence is the worst thing to happen to the defense this offseason, then I can live with it.

You keep advocating throwing the young players out there, then get apprehensive about Golson. Idk why that is? They're really high on the kid (obviously since they picked him in the second round) and he has some serious talent. I guess we will see what he's got this year. He's going to be on the field short of being an absolute disaster in the pre season and training camp.

You always expect/hope for the young players to take a step forward or become more consistent. It won't always happen, but it's a real possibility that one or more of them do. Dupree was a big time project IMO and found a way to contribute as a rookie. I fully expect him to be better than last season. Shazier only lacks consistency. With his injuries and being a second year player that happens. I think he can do it. His play this past season was very strong at the end of the year. Had a great playoff game against Cincy.

I understand most draft picks don't become impact players as rookies, but if this offseason has shown us anything it's that we are going HEAVY defense in the draft. I think we can find one or two guys that can help out and we are fairly thin in the secondary so these kids will probably get a chance to plays some. I don't see any reason why our defense should take a step back from last year. I think it will be a lot like last year in that they will get a lot better as the year goes on, but I think our floor will be higher this year. We won't have as many games like we did against NE or Seattle.

 

I'm talking about right now. He's lost three in a row and losing to the Ravens when they lost to everyone else cost us the division and homefield advantage in the playoffs.

 

I apologize for the novel last post. Tried to break it up a little so it's easier to read.

 

You don't know Golden isn't "the future." He is 25. He has not had significant playing time. There was and still is a possibility he could be a starter for several years. It is unlikely but it is possible.

Will Allen on the other hand... is 37.

What difference does it make that Gay has played outside? The Steelers want to use him in the slot. Period. The Steelers view Gay and Boykin in the same capacity.

The whole Steelers "outside corner philosophy" is to tackle the catch. What the **** is so hard about standing 8 yards off the line of scrimmage on the outside? You have to be a good tackler. Period. Boykin is AND he is the same size as Gay.

Gay was hardly thrown at last year. Only 3 CBs had fewer targets. Why? Because QBs were throwing at Blake who had the third most targets against him.

Gay allowed 40 of 61 catches and a 77 rating to QBs according to PFF.

Boykin surrendered a passer rating of 65 in the final 5 games last year.

So how can you say "31 year old Gay is better" when to my knowledge Gay has never held QBs to a rating of 65 and Boykin has only a fraction of a year's experience on this defense?!?!

Gay allows an over 60% completion rate and you make him sound like a shutdown corner.

Gay is an average corner who has lived up to his moniker lately... he is still a 31 year old 10 year veteran.

 

Gay is who he has mostly been over his 10 year career. Last year was a fluke because of the opposing team attacking the other worse cornerbacks. LOL.

 

Sure, you never know for sure that he isn't the future, but he was a 4 year vet on the team and had shown absolutely nothing in training camp or pre season to lead anyone to believe that he was even starter capable, let alone the future at the position. Reliability is a big deal in any professional team sport. Even if it's reliably mediocre. There was always a chance that Golden' play could turn into a dumpster fire and that's why they went with Allen when his health returned.

The Steelers aren't the only team that doesn't view Boykin as an outside capable corner. He was in Philly before us and they didn't think he could play outside either. They basically gave him up for almost nothing simply because he wasn't an outside guy. I understand it was a Chip Kelly move, but its still worth noting. I find it hard to believe that we didn't give him some outside snaps in practice, or at the very least we took his practice reps in the slot into consideration when viewing him as an outside guy. They just don't.

We played all back up QB's the last 5 weeks of the season. As the slot corner, he wouldn't have been covering the primary target ever. He likely wouldve been covering the 3rd or 4th option on most pass plays. At the very best the second option. The reason why most back up QB's are back ups is because they don't go thru the progressions at a high enough level, or at least aren't accurate enough in their later reads. It's not surprising that he had good numbers playing the slot against a myriad of junk NFL QB's. I think that's hardly a basis to compare him to the guy that has taken the toughest responsibility in the secondary for the past 3 seasons and has produced in the manner Gay has... Let alone use it as a basis of him somehow being a superior player.

I don't think Gay is a shut down corner. He's not. He would be a good number 2 on a team with an elite top corner. He plays well in the slot and plays well outside. Versatile player that plays well in multiple areas. Idk what more you want from the guy. But no, they do not view Gay and Boykin in the same light. They give Gay snaps outside. Lots of them. They don't view Boykin as a player capable of that role. They try to get Gay a lot of slot snaps because he is very good in that area, but it doesn't mean they view him and Boykin one in the same.

 

PFF graded Boykin as one of the best corners in the NFL in 2013 and 2014.

I don't think PFF is the be all and end all but it does offer a point of reference.

What in your opinion does it take to play outside for the Steelers? I see a lot of soft zone and hardly any bump and run.

In my mind it takes awareness and an ability to tackle. That's about it.

Gay and Boykin are 1a and 1b. Pretty hard to argue one over the other. Gay is better at drawing excessive celebration penalties.

The fact that Boykin is entering his prime and Gay is on the downside of his is the tiebreaker in my mind.

Steelers are trying to be old and slow again.

 

the offence is ready to win now ( providing they can stay healthy) the secondary is 2 years behind...I'm fed up with trying 20 different players to play 3 positions ...they need proven players ...not "well he might be better this year"..the secondary is a guessing game...this team doesn't have the cap space to build for long term...if they develop a great player those players are going ask for money that this team can't afford ..then it's back to we'll let's try this guy or that guy..instead spending 2 mil on this scab or 2 million on a maybe..spend the 5 mil on a proven player

 

I'm also of the opinion that Gay benefited from Blake's horribleness. I think Gay would really be the most effective in the slot. But aren't they thinking Golson is a slot guy too?

 

Bull**** Gay had a solid year before he left and has been solid since he came back.

 

the offense was ready to win now, but this year we are down heath and bryant and bell is still an uncertainty. big difference from last year. this also ties our hands on defense. having a franchise qb and top wr and top rb and expensive o-linemen really put a damper on the rest of the team. timmons on defense and heyward on defense also take up a lot of money. most proven players are not signing for that 5 mil. dollars either. our top 8 players cost us about 94 million dollars and add heaths dead money and we are at 97 plus. hard to fill a roster and have a lot of proven guys for whats left. it's really not about building long term when we are spending the money on a win now team.

 

to be fare Heath is a shadow of what he used to be ,, the TE they got from the Chargers sounds pretty good, Green?, Bryant drops a lot of balls I think Coates will do fine if that's the plan. We still have DW if Bell needs more time, DW filed in great until he got injured.

 

i don't dispute what you are saying, just that some of this we don't know about yet. it will be different. gates wasn't what he once was either and the kid had to share time with him. bryant has proven to the league he could burn them deep, coates hasn't. DW is capable but he hasn't lasted a full season. heaths blocking was still above par. last year is just that, last year.

 

Da stillers shud winz all ze gameses"

 

Okay....i know we cant win every game. But getting swept by a team that only won 5 games max?

 

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