TE.......

Yeah, I agree with your general statement about not putting too much stock in the combine. It is a good tool to see something that you normally wouldn't, such as Henry's weak showing in the bench, or Darian Thompson's poor overall showing in pretty much everything. Luckily for Henry, nobody is really stepping up to possibly fill his void. I like the combine to shed light on obvious flaws or help decide between the more athletic of two players.

 

Blast I agree and I am not saying you should ignore the combine, I like the combine I just feel a guy shouldn't rise or fall a long way cause of it. Example Henry, a lot of posters here like this kid. I have read many post how he is far and away better then any of the other TE's. I have also read how he is so NFL ready as a blocker, people are saying he could step right in. Well does that change with a 13 rep bench, imo it shouldn't. Unless people aren't watching this guy and only reading about him, but then those opinions are flawed. The other thing is just cause a guy can't bench don't make him weak or not a good blocker. There is more to blocking then strength, positioning and leverage also play a big part.

All I am saying is yes the combine is a tool but play is what I like to judge a player on. The combine offers a lot of good drills but I think to much gets decided there, jmo. Here is some good reads on good and bad combines:

http://www.sportingnews.com/photos/...s-brees-brady-suggs-boldin-haden/slide/441583

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...heyward-bey-vernon-gholston-dri-archer-022416

 

I'm feeling a little underwhelmed about the whole group. There will be some solid contributors from this group for sure, but there doesn't seem to be a big gap between the highly rated ones and the second tier imo.

 

I've heard by many that teams only use the combine for about 5-10% of their evaluation process. One thing it does do though is give you that comparison between the players in their respective position group. All the players can be judged on the same thing. All the DBs in the "W" drill for example.

A lot of gray areas are probably cleared up as well, such as height/weight. College listings are usually off. I found in multiple sites where William Jackson III was 6'2", well I think he measured in at 6'.

The big "jumps" in the media rankings and mock drafts after the combine could just be over-reactions. NFL teams probably don't change their boards very much, unless issues arise out of a prospect's medical or interview results.

 

I am fine with that Blast if two players are valued the same, where I disagree is if a guy has a good showing and jumps up the "experts" board or posters think the player is god cause he benched 30 reps. The same with a guy doing poorly and him dropping on the list.
I am not saying you or Turtle were the ones saying Henry was way better then the rest but there were posters here that have and not many if any disagreed. I did not go back thru the thread or other ones but it is there. People on this board think Henry is the best TE in the draft and a very good blocker. Now he had 13 reps I am saying that shouldn't change peoples opinion, unless they never watched him play and were just going off the draft sites. jmo

 

as you guys say it is a tool. henry's shorter arms may have dropped him slightly. it is a fact that in the pros that shorter arms hurt a guy in the blocking department. mostly linemen. it is less of a catch radius as a receiver too. college tape is one thing but as a pro these guys are all good and something as trivial to us as casual fans can be looked at as a negative to some teams. it's all part of the process. teams also feel shorter arm guys should bench more because of the shorter arms than a guy with arms 3 inches longer. it says a little about overall strength. they do rank these guys different and under a microscope in every drill they do. some teams may use it more than the next. when you can find numbers that are all good and some brains to go with it, then you usually have a keeper.

the DB's for example, i want them to run fast in the 40, but i also look at the shuttle and 3 cone drills to get their quickness numbers. that is a huge part of playing D in the pros. closing speed after a receiver makes a cut and the balls in the air can be determined by these types of drills. the fastest guys in a straight line are not always the quickest in the short range. so just more tools for teams to work with.

 

I still think Henry is the best TE in the draft and from what I've read a very good blocker. Those 13 reps are a big red flag for me though and for a first round pick I want to minimize as many areas of weakness as possible. As of now that appears to be his only weakness. Going through the proper vetting process he may creep back into consideration for the #25 pick but something tells me another guy will be available with less of a glaring deficiency. Now if he comes out and runs a 4.5 40 and smokes the agility drills and explosive jumps at his pro day, then yeah, that 13 rep bench will be a lot easier to ignore. But for now I have the dreaded "Jarvis Jones eye of scrutiny" on him.

 

to be honest henry probably isn't as good as blocker as vannett. he's good not great. those shorter arms against pro lb'ers will hurt him some. pros with longer arms and more strength will keep him off of them easier. it's not to say he won't succeed but it's just something teams look for. i think grimble runs as good of routes as either of these two on film and is possibly a better blocker than henry at this point. i'm not sure there is a huge difference that would make me take him as early as he's projected over what we already have here. these early picks could be used elsewhere and we could come out with relatively the same results. james has already improved and grimble will learn under spaeth for at least another season. i just don't think an early pick is warranted at this point on a TE until we see what we have. it's possible we won't see this position until late in this draft.

 

And don't get me wrong I am not bashing the combine by no means, I am just saying me personally I don't put it as a decision maker. Like you all pointed out it is a tool and has some very useful drills and the measurable's are very good. I don't like when people move a guy cause of say in this case a bad bench, jmo. For the record I am not a Henry fan, I think most know I am high on Higbee. Love this kid and won't cost a 1st, nothing against Henry if he is our pick that's fine he is a good talent I am just preferring the pass catcher 1st mold. jmo

 

i agree about combine speed and playing speed. since so many guys that run good times workout with people on their starts and such just to run a better 40 time. some guys don't. some of these guys that run these low 40's don't run that fast on the field in play. as has been said it's a tool and teams know this. 4.5 and a 4.6 are very minimal on the field. thats why i like the quickness numbers for DB's. there is a difference in a guy that may run a 4.5 and have a 3.90 drill than a guy that runs a 4.4 and a 4.4 drill. quickness on the move out of a back peddle and that closing speed are huge with these guys usually. it can make a 4.5 40 guy a better DB than a 4.4 40 guy in coverage.

 

What exactly do you like about Higbee that makes you so high on him? I'm just curious. He seems like an okay prospect but an awful fit for us.

 

I like him as a pass catcher, all I can think about when watching him is Jimmy Graham. I feel like in our offense he would shine in the inside part of the field, opening the outside and deep routes. He is all over hand on the ground, split out and in the backfield. Now he always locks up with his guy when he blocks and sometimes he don't stick with him. I like the added offense he could add to this team, he won't need to be picked in the 1st round where we could focus on CB, S or pass rusher and still get a good player at TE. Watch the link and you will noticed what I just mentioned, his guy make a few tackles but watch the td run, he can block and is a willing blocker I think that will prove it.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/tyler-higbee-vs-indiana-2015/

Now I am not stuck on Higbee there are others in this class who are good as well, I just like this kid more and more. I am one of the few that feel there are 4-5 solid picks in this class and they range from all different projected rounds.

 

I want football players, and good smart people who have passion, love the game of football, know the game, are not afraid of contact.

enjoy contact. I look for certain things per position. If I don't see certain things a red flag goes up. IE OL/DL if I don't see them

putting up 30 reps a red flag goes off. Something is lacking for a 300 pounder not to be able to do 30 reps? And as always since

the Steelers are investing millions into these guys, the back ground check IS VERY IMPORTANT.

 

Got ya. Yeah, I figured it was his pass catching ability. He does pretty well after the catch too which could be useful for us. I just don't know that we would be able to utilize a Graham type TE to the fullest ability in our O. If he could be as good as Graham tho, I'd be all for it haha

 

I will tell ya this I am just looking at it as another offensive weapon, and if he ends up being "graham like" could you imagine this offense??? Not listen I am not saying he will be but you must have saw something as well since you mentioned he was pretty good after the catch. I feel the NFL is changing fast and the more weapons you have the better, I liked that this kid could catch everything and he showed some blocking skills as well.
I just think there is more out there then just Henry and if we want Henry we have to go with him in the 1st, which is fine but I like options. I watched that Williams kid and he didn't look bad either but I like Higbee better right now.

 

TE is not a need. Our secondary..THAT'S A NEED!

 

i beg to differ. 186 catches the last 3 years. always 3rd on the team in receptions and the blocking is another reason we need one. remember back to the last season heath was out of the lineup. it wasn't pretty.

 

My friend you are sadly mistaken.

 

From Steelers.com:

McShay said he thought about mocking Arkansas tight end Hunter Henry to the Steelers at No. 25, but “maybe it’s just old school,” he said. “I think they’ll want someone who is more of a blocker.”

*If the Steelers wait until the second or third round to take a tight end South Carolina’s Jerrell Adams is McShay’s No. 2 prospect behind Henry.

“Of all the tight ends in this class he’s the best at separating from man to man coverage,” McShay said. “That’s because of his speed. He ran the fastest time of all the tight ends at the combine. He has subtle head fakes and crispness of his routes. Hunter Henry is the closest. Jerrell Adams might have the highest ceiling of all the TEs in this class.”

McShay has Nick Vannett of Ohio State and Austin Hooper of Stanford third and fourth on his list.

 

Listen, you can run down all the stats you want on Heath. Still, the secondary is red alert poor in real talent. To get to the super bowl, we need to upgrade the secondary. Upgrading the TE position is not the make/break in us getting to the Super Bowl. I understand we have an emotional attachment to the position because of Heath. But the TE position doesn't need to be addressed until the second or third rounds at the earliest.

Go look at the Broncos game that we lost in the playoffs; The lack of plays by our secondary killed us. And has hurt us alot over the last 4 years.

If you want an immediate upgrade in TE catches, then we need to sign Vernon Davis. He's a free agent and he's still got some game left and he'll come cheap.

Now go see how hard it is to get good cornerback play in free agency. I rest my case.