salary cap guru's

You clearly don't understand how this works. If I may suggest go read about Troy and Miller's last extensions. One thing you need to understand there is a difference between restructuring and extending.

 

No. YOU don't understand how extension's work. Miller signed a 2 year 8 million dollar extension. His cap hit this year is over 7M.

Miller extending saved the Steelers 3M against the cap in 2014 and is now costing the Steelers the same 3M extra in 2016.

A 33 year old Polamalu who took a giant pay cut has NOTHING to do with Timmons' position.

There is no scenario where Timmons extends and does not cost the Steelers 10+ M until 2020. He isn't going to extend for fewer than 3 years or less than 9M per year plus what he is owed.

 

Timmons doesn't make 15M in 2016. That is his cap hit. His salary is 8.5M. Timmons restructured so that 6.5M restructure bonus is his regardless of whether he is cut.

Timmons market value is close to 8M. Steelers signed him for 9.5M per year. Anything Timmons makes is on top of his bonus so he will make a fortune next year regardless of whether he is cut.

Timmons and his agent are in a great spot... not the Steelers. Don't get it twisted.

I have RPO blocked so I can't see his posts. Don't know what he proposed.

 

I'm far from being a cap guru. Please define good cap shape? $ specific?

 

Steelers are over the cap by 2 millon right now I read but I think it is more than that.

The AFC East minus the Jets are all in bad cap shape as well.

Raiders have 79 M in cap space the most in the NFL.

Steelers can restructure Ben's contract to create 5M in cap space in 2016 by transferring that sum to 2017. That probably makes the most sense.

If they do that I think they will be under without extending Timmons or cutting anyone.

 

^
This is totally wrong. Don't listen to this guy about the cap

 

They have very easy moves they can make to get well under the cap + they have very few BIG contracts they are due to give out (basically only Decastro).

Here's a mock up I posts a month ago:

 

You really have a lot of things backwards.

Timmons restructured bonus money has already been paid. He's not getting 15 million regardless. If he's cut, he gets nothing. His 8.75 salary is not guaranteed. The steelers have all the leverage. You think 30 year old middle linebackers are getting 8 million per year on the open market?!?! Ha that's hilarious

 

Timmons cap hit is 15.1 mil that is base salary(8.75) + signing bonus(6.381) from last year. Signing bonus gets spread out over the contract so if we cut Timmons the only thing that would be dead money is the signing bonus.

Lawrence Timmons restructured his contract on September 3, 2015 coverting $6.63 million of salary into a signing bonus. The move creates $3.315 million in cap space for Pittsburgh.

 

I sure hope you are right but I can't help but feel like...

 

I think they've done a good job over the years with cuts and restructures.

Did they place a bad bet on Cortez Allen? Yea. Did the Woodley contract turn in to a disaster? yea. But overall, they've done a pretty remarkable job managing the cap. Sure, there were two seasons (12/13) where we had to pay the piper for keeping a super bowl roster together for so long... But that's just how it goes.

We are in very good cap shape today. We are going to be able to make some moves in free agency to bolster the roster (whether re-signing our own like Foster or Golden, or bringing in a safety/corner from outside).

Again, anyone fearing our cap situation this year is poorly informed

 

The Woodley deal did hurt, but at the time it was worth every penny. Hopefully in 2016 Allen will live up to his contract. I'm glad you brought the keeping the roster together up. The Steelers made a conscientious decision to make a run at more Lombardi's.

 

I fear our DB position . We have a bunch of scrubs ,,how much could we save by cutting or trading them ? We need top talent at CB and at Safety not just depth guys . We need starters ...How do we get the money to do that ?

Ben and the O have enough fire power , but the window is closing as Ben has took a beating over the years. He may have 3 good seasons left we need a real Defense and we need it right now ...

 

OK. Timmons is DUE 15M next year but he does not MAKE 15M next year. LT MADE that money when his base salary was reduced and turned into bonuses.

The reason LT is DUE so much now is the Steelers have been deferring his base salary into bonuses for years.

RPO's answer? Extend Timmons and continue to defer paying his salary for years.

Fine. The Steelers might do that but Timmons cap hit will remain inflated for much longer.

The problem is that Timmons will be cheaper NOW and more expensive in the FUTURE when the Steelers are trying to pay AB closer to what he is worth, extend Bell, extend Tuitt, extend Bryant, extend Shazier etc.

I think instead Ben should be restructured freeing up 5M next year but costing 5M extra the following year. Deal with LT's salary now which frees up some money for the young up and comers.

 

just wow

 

Not sure what you're having a problem with. Behind the Steel Curtain website and Steel Blitz website both had articles suggesting Timmons might be a cap casualty. It's not a wild hypothesis whatsoever it's actually been proposed by writers who presumably have more insight than you or me.

Roethlisberger's cap hit in 2017 is 18M. It is 23M every other year. Why not free up almost 6M next year by making 2016 cap hit the small one?

Also cutting Suisham saves 1.8M against the cap and Boswell is signed through 2016.

I just showed how 7.6M can be saved on the cap with 2 players without extending Timmons.

I think it's hilarious that so many people equate extensions to savings. Nothing is saved in extending Timmons. Payments will be deferred.

Steelers are paying Bell, Shazier, Tuitt and Bryant 3.1M in 2016. Comprende?

Bell and Wheaton are in a contract year.

Shazier, Tuitt and Bryant are all looking for new contracts after 2017.

Steelers have the same odds of keeping all those players if they extend Timmons as a white Olympic sprinter winning 100M gold.

How do you not get that? Wow. Just wow.

 

The thing is you show how to save money but how do you replace Timmons? Our D is already bad and you want to get rid of a guy who #1 just restructured last year to help the cap and #2 is a pretty damn good ball player and #3 adding more dead money to the next two years? You have to replace Timmons you can't just cut him and say there money saved, the only money you save is his base salary. We would still have 6.3mil dead money, we are a team where money is tight. By extending Timmons you fix both problems, right?

 

Steelers can rotate Vince Williams on running downs and Spence on passing downs.

Timmons would be missed but does that hurt the Steelers more than potentially being unable to re-sign Tuitt? Bryant?

If Bell returns to form (which I expect) the Steelers will have to pay him 10M per year to keep him. Wheaton is definitely gone.

2017 Steelers will be EXTREMELY strapped for cash while trying to re-sign Shazier, Tuitt and Bryant.

Good luck with that.

Draft is coming up soon. Steelers will have resolved the cap by then. We will see how. I think Timmons probably will be extended and I think it is a big mistake that forces Steelers to let the young talent walk for a 33 year old ILB heading into his 12th season.

I'm not saying the Steelers should get rid of Timmons but they shouldn't extend him. Pay him out NOW and get rid of the 6M dollar overpayment rather than screw up caps in the future. That's all. Start him on a new contract in 2017 that is front loaded.

 

This is Timmons final year on his contract. He wouldn't be a dead cap hit any year but 2016.

I think it makes sense to negotiate in 2017 also because if Shazier plays like he did in the playoffs and stays healthy he will take a lot of tackles away from Timmons and lessen his market value.

Steelers could potentially cut 3 or 4 million per year off Timmons cap hit for 3+ seasons by waiting to negotiate rather than extending.

 

If you look at some roster moves I mentioned above you'd see we could have around 20 million in cap space.

 

Again... Making very little to no sense

Actually you fundamentally misunderstand how extension I've suggested works. And that's largely due to the fact that you have misread the market/economics so severely that you actually think Timmons will cost less to sign when competing against free agency.

Timmons 8.75 is at risk. As you've correctly noted he is in danger of being cut. Since there are no additional years, the steelers are in no need to do this immediately. They have Timmons by the balls (they can effectively block him from the free agent market, and release after teams have done their shopping).

If released late in the game, Timmons is in jeopardy of going from 8.75, to some far far far less in guaranteed short term money.

I am in favor of using that leverage to extend Timmons and convert his salary this year to bonus, while maintaining a low end base salary over that extension.

What it really means is we spread his current salary over 3 years and give him NO new guarantee money, and keep subsequent salaries low.

Essentially, I understand how the steelers operate, and you dont

 

This is not true, yeah this is his final year but if we cut him we are still on the hook for 6.3 mil which we paid him last year in a bonus. That would be spread over the next 2 years, so 3.150mil in dead money the next 2 seasons. If we extend him to a 3 year contract which is what I want cause you can say what you want you can't replace LT with Williams. Then you can turn some more of his salary into a bonus while giving us a lower cap number for this year and then next few with a team friendly contract. To not want to sign LT to a 3 year deal is crazy he is and has been the most consistent player on our D. Also like I mentioned before you want to cut a guy who just helped the team last year????? smh.

Now we have Tuitt, Shazier and Bryant under control for the next two years we have time to deal with them. Bell may be the problem cause the Steelers pay the oline before the backs.