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Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by pjgruden, Nov 16, 2015.

  1. pjgruden

    pjgruden

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    First off, I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here. And if this is a subject that we need to tread lightly on (or if you think we should just leave well enough alone TTF), then I apologize.

    This has been on my mind since the events in Paris on Friday. Maybe I'm just too apathetic with the world today, but I didn't really feel much of anything for France when this was all unfolding. The more I think about it though, the angrier I get. But the reason I'm angry is probably not what one might expect.

    I'm angry because I really have no idea how we stop this group. How do you stop an enemy that doesn't follow any of the typical rules or conventions of war? They're nothing but a bunch of cowards. They also don't really have a centralized base of operations.

    So, what's the answer? Just carpet bomb entire countries? How many innocent would die that way? Send in ground troops? Then you're putting the military at risk. And for what? Why haven't these occupied countries stood up to ISIS? I'd ask why we have to bail them out, but I know the answer. Most countries follow the US's lead. If we don't do anything about it, will someone else step up to the plate?

    And what might be an even scarier question, what happens if/when ISIS is eradicated? Will some other radical group that's just as bad (or worse) come in and pick up where the other left off?
     
  2. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    If people want to discuss ideas on how to stop them, I suppose we can try to leave it open for discussion but as soon as anyone brings in Obama, or Republican/Democratic parties, thread gets locked. Lets just keep it to the fight against terrorism.

    You'll never eradicate terrorism, you're talking about fanatics willing to die for a cause, it will be an endless war. All you can do is fight them as they appear, right now it Isis, before them, it was Al-Qaeda. But as seen again and again, cut off the head of a snake, another one grows in its place.

    And yes, you'll have to fight them on the ground as well as strategic air strikes. But what makes the Paris attack so alarming, is they went dark, no one was able to pick up their chatter, which is how their attacks are always found out about before hand.

    Its only a matter of time before you see an attack like that here. Israel has been living that reality for decades. They can try closing the boarders, people have been wanting to do that for a long time, the Paris attacks may give that some legs.
     
  3. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    I think it's impossible to eradicate terrorism. You would essentially have to eradicate poverty and religion(all) and that isn't even possible in theory.
     
  4. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Just this once, I'd like to sit it out (unless we're attacked directly).

    France wants to fight them.
    Russia wants to fight them.
    Syria and Iran want to fight them.

    Let them fight. Grab the popcorn.
     
  5. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    It's such a complex topic, it's difficult to present a single 'answer'.

    They are a technically adept, communication-savvy network, who are preying off numerous contradictory foreign policies of various different states. As such, their existence is carved out of a whole load of local power balances across the Middle East and Europe, which are rooted in a whole mess of political history. The complexity of the situations is what makes them so hard to hit. Just look at the trouble that bombing Syria has caused in terms of diplomacy - let alone human suffering.

    My starter for ten, though, would be to look at how they're existing. Their money is generated from selling oil. We can't bomb the oil fields; so find out who's buying the oil. Find out what they're doing with it. Map out the network, and close it down node by node.

    They have. There has been bitter fighting in every province ISIS has appeared in. The problem is, the good guys don't always win (and it's very rarely a case of good guys and bad guys). Again, look at Syria.
     
  6. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin Mod Team

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    Thanks, pj. It is a "tread lightly" topic, but as long as we can refrain from it turning into a religious or political debate...we should be able to enjoy an intelligent discussion without having to lock it up.
    There really isn't an answer IMO. What country(s) would you bomb? That's long been the "problem" with terrorist organizations that don't have a nation.

    Probably, though it's hard to imagine one worse. It does seem like the fight against terror is whack-a-mole.
    Quite true. Ultimately, there needs to be a coalition of world powers working together on different fronts to have a real impact on ISIS.
     
  7. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    I think they have to look at the non-conflict solutions that won't typically cause escalation. For lack of a better word the nonsexy ways. I know everyone wants to grab their gun and head over there but head over where? How do you attack ideals that go beyond borders and can't be fought in a frontal assault. Take out the infrastructure, the money, the guns, the tech. Its Al Capone getting nailed for tax evasion and not the gun fight at the O.K. Corral. I think that ISIS made a critical mistake and ticked off the hacker community and they are declaring war on them. As isolated as these sleeper cells like to think they are leave it to Anonymous to ferret them out and start expose the money trail.

    As far as military action I am in favor of no boots on the ground but I was in favor of that in Afghanistan as well. Don't give terrorist who don't respect life a target. Operate from carrier groups with special forces hitting select targets and then withdrawing to the safety of superior strength. Don't send them into foreign territory and say hey here we are.
     
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  8. niterider

    niterider Well-Known Member

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    This one is little more close to home for me as I am actually Syrian with relatives that still live over in the christian sect of Syria and had a relative murdered while he was grocery shopping with my grandma by a so called syrian rebel that didn't even speak the same Arabic dialect. :hmm: That store was leveled a few hours later by the Syrian Army.

    So how do you stop ISIS? The answers are there, but it's a matter of getting the major players to take said action.
    1. Cut off all funding. You would be surprised whose hands the oil eventually falls to. It takes 2 to make a transaction. The buyers are enabling this behavior. Yes, The US is one of those countries.
    2. Confront Saudi Arabia for their role in not only failing to circumvent this movement but stoking the flames as well. When this "civil war" started, most of the so called rebels were of Saudi descent. It is in very much Saudi's interest to see Syria go all Sunni.
    3. Change US policy to get out of the nation building business. Contrary to what you've heard in the media, most syrians liked Assad as president as he was the only secular president in the Middle East and protected minorities and was on a path to advance Syria's well being and technology in the middle east. If anything, we should have backed Assad when this all started.
    4. Get to the heart of the problem. As long as the world continues to force ME people to their agenda, you'll see blowback for the rest of time. Many of those ISIS members today were little kids when we went after Iraq after 9/11.
    Just my 2 cents.
     
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  9. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin Mod Team

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    That's horrible. I'm really sorry to hear that, Rider.

    I'm somewhat surprised to hear that.

    It's hard for Assad to get support from most world powers while his regime is being accused of ethnic cleansing and atrocities towards his own people.

    And some of them are executing kids today. This line of thought can go can on and on (9/11 terrorists were kids when...IJO bombers in the '80s were kids when...), but ultimately it's not the cause for their actions.

    You have some good points. Maybe I'm a cynic, but I don't see an end to the cycle of destruction.
     
  10. blountforcetrauma

    blountforcetrauma Well-Known Member

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    My wife worked with an intern that was from Syria and went back home for an arranged marriage. She supported Assad too. Some consider him a "necessary evil" in the region because the alternative could be even worse.
     
  11. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    Looking at who these guys are. The heads came from idiots running the detention centers and then the policies as far as who was getting released.

    Hell the purge of Libya was idiotic! Who did the World think they were backing there? We don't know the internal politics/alliegences of these countries that we try to "help".
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
  12. niterider

    niterider Well-Known Member

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    Regarding Assad, He's bashed over and over. Is he the ideal leader for syria? No. But the people appreciated him and supported him. I believe a lot of misunderstanding stems on how we defined the "rebels." From day one, we (my family here and abroad) knew something was up when the protests started 4 years ago. Why is it, that many of these protesters were not even Syrian? Remember gassing against his own people a year and half ago? The group responsible was actually al nusra, a radicalized Muslim group who is now a part of ISIS who has become very proficient in using propaganda to further their cause. There is even footage of them slipping and claiming responsibility. Is it no wonder that Assad was trying to take them out at any costs? We called them rebels, he called them terrorists at the time and treated them as such. But since we started calling them protesters, rebels etc, the narrative was already set up against Assad.

    And don't get me wrong, these guys are a plague on civilization and must be eradicated. I'm simply explaining how we got to this point and that our policies did not help our cause. Unfortunately, we can't turn the clock back. I'm more or less trying to get to the root of the problem and that is not only allowing countries to further their radicalization, but enabling them as well with Saudi Arabia as the biggest culprit and having them as an ally instead. But as they say, oil runs the world. If Saudi Arabia didn't have a drop of oil, you would see an all out assault on their atrocities against mankind. Instead, out politicians are holding hands with them.

    So how do you fight ISIS and their ideals when you're befriending their leader of their ideology? While the people of our great nation are second to none, our government is a run away train wreck filled with corruption at the deepest level.
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    One of my best friends, her mother, and two cousins are taking a trip to Germany during the first week in December to visit her brother who is working there through his company for the next 2 years. They are also planning on visiting Paris, among other places.

    I'm worried about her safety, but she insists on going and isn't going to cancel the trip as everything is already booked and paid for. Please keep them in your thoughts and prayers. If you're not one for prayer, if you would be so kind, please send good thoughts their way.
     
  14. knab70

    knab70 Well-Known Member

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    People are missing the broader-larger picture of this entire scenario that's unfolding before us. A script formulated before the foundation of the world. An inevitable event in the making.. WW3 ~ Armageddon. Stay tuned!
     
  15. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    image.jpg
     
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  16. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Only a matter of time before this started happening here, amazed it hasn't happened sooner but terrorists are in love with spectacular attacks like 9/11. Once they move past that affliction, you'll see more of the Paris/San Bernardino attacks. However, I'm still not certain if the attack here was islamic extremists or home grown like Timothy McVeigh in Oklahoma. Which, if I'm not mistaken, is still the largest home grown terror attack ever.
     
  17. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin Mod Team

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    Oh definitely. I hope that ************ is getting tortured in hell for all eternity.
     
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  18. blountforcetrauma

    blountforcetrauma Well-Known Member

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    He is.
     

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