Vick Coming for a Look??

Humans and animals are different. Killing dogs and molesting little boys are worlds apart. There's a reason they put dog fighters in gen pop and protect chomos in prison. Like I said in a earlier post lets cry about a dead lion but ignore the rape and murders going on in that same country. When did an animal become more important then a human? Sorry but to compare a dog killer to a child molester is a huge stretch. Those boys have to live the rest of their lives with that torment but let's compare that to some dead dogs.

 

Thanks for the video, I'll have to watch it later. I have four dogs (all rescues), including two pits. And one of those had supposedly bitten someone. Yet he is as gentle as it gets now. I've seen a dog fight happen a few times between my beagle and coonhound. That made me sick to my stomach. I can't fathom wanting to be in that situation, and actually enjoying it.
You know, maybe it was the culture that Vick grew up in, but that doesn't make it right. I grew up with bigotry and intolerance, yet somehow that hasn't effected me, and I don't carry those same traits on. To think that Vick didn't know what he was doing is wrong is a farce. Did he never pick up a newspaper or browse the internet?

 

http://nationaldaycalendar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/national-dog-day-august-26.png

 

Exactly . The past is the past . Can he play or not ? News flash a lot of NFL players are not Saints .Some have killed people,some have beaten women, some sell drugs to kids, some are molesters, most are liars, some are thieves and so on. The point being whether or not these guys get caught or have been caught is irrelevant. The point is none of them are Christ and they will all fall short....

As a person who has fell short on many occasions myself I want forgiveness for the wrongs that I have done as such I try to forgive the wrongs of others. While I can't tell anyone else how to feel , I just wanted to share my view, and clearly that is a similar view as Coach Tomlin's, this just adds to my respect for the man not take any away........

 

That was kind of my point. The OP decided to insult the animal activist people and I just decided to call him out on it.

 

I guess you will be shocked when Haley names LJ the backup for the season opener, he knows the playbook and has been getting plenty of reps to earn that spot, vick isnt even in football shape and probably wont even get more than a few reps saturday if any, very seldom do they sign a player and put him on the field that week, vick wont be any where close to being ready to backup ben by sept 10...It's LJs job now with gradkowski on IR...

 

Vick wouldn't be here unless he was pretty much told you are number 2. He isn't going to come back to be a third string QB.

 

Now your talking to yourself lol

 

Seriously? lol

 

Great post. I've worked with Best Friends for 10 years plus and they do a great job with all kinds of animals. Thanks for the video.

 

Thanks, TTF! I appreciate it. And this place. And I respect your ability to keep cool. If I was the mod around here this place would be a bloodbath. Well done.

 

Aye, seconded.

Regardless of the pros, cons, agrees or disagrees, this is the kind of news item that I can't imagine any messageboard moderator being delighted to see.

 

Yeah. I get that "culture" is how he was introduced to it, but I also suspect he knew it was a wrong thing to do by the time he was 9 years old. If he didn't, he shouldn't have. And how old was he when he started his own, 20? And he kept going until he was caught at 26 or 27? That, my friends, is old enough to know the difference between right and wrong, especially for something as wrong as this. Vick and his supporters just look to any excuse.

Dogs fighting "naturally" (like between pets or at the dog park) is awful, especially when one or both are your dogs, but it's not in the same league as dogfighting. I didn't see your beagle and coonhound going at it so I could be wrong, but that kind of thing is usually more like a shouting match between children, maybe a fistfight at worst. It looks and sounds worse than that, but it's usually not. People imagine the worst result, but usually both dogs are fine - maybe a scratch or puncture wound. I worked as a trainer helping dogs to socialize with each other, building playgroups and working with up to over a hundred dogs in a day. We had fights all the time, especially since many of them were poorly socialized, and were there to learn to get along better. They were a crappy thing to happen, but like I said, more like a schoolyard wrestling match. I can think of only one time that a dog was messed up enough to keep fighting, and that dog was really messed up.

The kind of dogfighting Vick did is more like chaining people up in a basement, torturing them, and threatening their lives if they don't fight whatever fellow prisoner they throw in the ring with them. Then a killing de jour for the loser or anyone badly injured. I think that was a Criminal Minds episode, actually.

 

I outlined the similarities in my post, if you're having trouble seeing all the connections. I didn't say killing dogs was worse. I also don't think the sentences handed down by the criminal justice system are perfect, and I don't usually take ethics advice from "gen pop."

It's not a contest which is worse. I can be outraged by rape, murder, and trophy hunting. I haven't done so much as post a facebook comment about that lion, but if I had to guess, I'd say maybe that type of person feels like they have little influence over raping terrorists (how much do you think a facebook comment would do there?), and also feel like trophy hunting (and dogfighting!) are things that could and should be shut down in an instant, if only people could get their heads out of their asses and make the effort to stop it.

If you look at what went into the Vick/Sandusky crimes, they are similar to each other in ways that are different from the Greg Hardy - Ray Rice - Josh Gordon - Donte Stallworth - Ray Lewis types. For specifics, see my lengthy previous post.

 

I get what you are saying but on the he knew it was wrong end I don't fully agree with you there. If a kid is raised to hate a certain race is it his fault when he grows up to hate that race. Vick was brought up as this is a normal way life. I think where a lot of people have a problem is we see a dog and think house pet but these people who have been around dog fighting literally their entire lives don't see it that way. Are they just numb to it from seeing it for so long, do they know it is wrong and keep going, or do they just think it is fine and there is no problem with it I don't know I've never fought dogs or been to a dog fight. The ones I have talked to seem to be indifferent to it and look at it almost like a past time. Maybe once he got arrested and looked everything he said wow I was really messed up and that's why he changed and has done what he has done. To some that can't be because Vick is Satan and the cause of all the problems in the world I do t see it that way.

 

He gets a pass from me on his childhood. He can't control that. It's too bad he grew up where it was common. Who knows, maybe - and this is something I'm imagining in order to play devil's advocate and defend him - maybe a mother or grandfather or someone said to him at an impressionable age, "Dogfighting is good. People will tell you it's bad, but don't believe them, it's good." That probably didn't happen, but suppose it did. I don't care. A 20 year old man who starts a dogfighting ring the minute he's financially able gets no pass from me. A functioning society is supposed to have adults know right from wrong. Come on, he knew it was wrong, he was just having too much fun. To be that old and not even feel like it's wrong, and have the drive to do it, and keep doing it isn't something people do because it was in the neighborhood growing up. This was a passion of his, like football.

Your side says that he learned from his mistakes in prison. Just in time to get a fresh $100M contract, when "coming clean" was the only way to get back into the league and make that money. You're telling me that epiphany came in jail, at a time that coincidentally got him that $100M contract back. Wow, lucky him! Most guys would have said, "I stand by what I did!" and walked away from the league and the money.

But gee, I wish that epiphany had come when he had his hands on the back of one of those dogs' heads. You know what I wonder about? Did he roll up his sleeves or take off his shirt? How much did he care how wet he got? Did he try to stay dry, or did he consider the splashing part of the fun, like a water fight? Did it depend on what he had to do later that day? Or was he going to shower regardless so it didn't really matter? Too bad he grew up in the south. Otherwise we might have to accept he's just a dirtbag.

 

Then why keep doing it once he got that contract? He had his contract and we all know once a player is back in the league he will stay in the league so he could have just stopped. Instead he keeps supporting the Humane Society and Peta and was a big key to getting a law passed that allows spectators to be arrested? Why do all that if he could have just said OK I'm back in the league I'm done.

 

I'm no psychic, but maybe because he has an image to maintain, both to stay employed and build a positive legacy. Maybe he doesn't like being the most hated man in the country. Maybe there's some honest reform mixed in.

Nevertheless, best-case scenario: suppose he truly is 100% reformed, and sees the err of his ways, and those memories truly churn his stomach the way they do mine. That would be great. It's a miracle. Get him off this football team. I don't usually congratulate people for finally reaching the bare minimum of human decency, let alone cheer for them and ignore the damage they caused. And given what he did and how he handled it, he has earned my distrust and skepticism. The boy cried wolf every step of the way until he had no other options. He did what benefited himself every step of the way, including "taking responsibility" and including donating money. Just assuming he's doing everything for the right reasons - when he only started doing the right things after they started padding his wallet - seems naive to me.

 

I disagree but that is just my opinion. If he was still as evil as people make him out to be he wouldn't care about his image or being hated.

 

Let me ask you this and it is kind of off topic but not. How do you feel about operation paperclip? For those that don't know what that is it is where the USA brought in roughly 1600 nazi scientists and engineers for a number of different reasons and ran from 1945-1990. These guys did great things for America after designing stuff to kill Americans. They were huge in our advancement of rockets and the space program and some even say were the reason Russia was afraid to actually do anything in the cold war. So do you focus on the good they did after and their efforts to better the world or do you focus on what they did as Nazis. One of which was Van Buren who designed the V2 which almost crippled England.

 

Yeah, unfortunately for me I saw the real thing.
Warning, graphic content

Spoiler

My coonhound got the worst of it, with the flesh on her throat ripped open, exposing the innards. There was just soo much blood. Not to mention the torn ears.

I think most people don't realize what a REAL dog fight is. They are beyond heartbreaking to watch and know that you can't stop it for the most part, even with break sticks. There were times when I had to throw on a thick pair of leather gloves and jam my fist in the dog's mouth to stop them from attacking each other. Yet as soon as they broke up, they went back to licking the other's wounds. It was the weirdest damn thing.

 

As far as Operation paperclip, unfortunately I think it's two different things here. So yes, I give the US a pass on this. The Nazi scientists were trying to advance science, regardless of the reasons (good or bad). Someone has to supply the warfighter, if not them, someone else will. So while there were plenty of atrocities in the Holocaust, what were these scientists directly responsible? Did they push the button that lead to deaths?
Vick on the other hand, he had no one to answer to but himself. He could have said no.